Brinkmann vs TW Acustic

Suteetat,
I use Timeline, Allnic Strobe, Kuzma on my tables. Timeline is by far the most accurate but also very difficult to reach strobe. I wouldn't say that small deviations with the Timeline mean in any case that the table is not working precisely. But if you go for absolut speed control - and we know this is only one parameter - Timeline is by far the best.
I have tested eg. my Micros (SX 8000 and SX 8000 II) with the Timeline. When using the VPI SPS in my flywheel configuration I can reach a stable flashing on one spot.

Proper speed is not an issue of if you are using Timeline or not. I learned that turntable design always concentrated on this important parameter reaching accurat speed or not. Nevertheless I got to known a guy who loved his benchmark system while playing his table with far too slow speed. But he loved this sound. So how should we comment? People sometimes love their systems not knowing what they are doing maybe and like in the dark ages of our history if you tell them they need starting corrections they offend.

Dear Suteetat: This is one of my posts in this thread that not only has to do with speed deviations but on the Timeline:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1365275848&openflup&101&4#101

I would like to know if any one of those " Timweline perfect " TT already try that " experience " I explain in the post.

It is not only for understand that the myth of Timeline ( that a TT must be inside Timeline. ) but to undertsand what you are hearing over time.

I urge you all of you to do it, belieme me it's worth to do it. There is nothing more rewarded that learn, anything but learn. As better information we have as better audio decicions we can take and certainly not because Timeline that's a good toy but IMHO not the one that define which TT is good or not. As I said in the post: this is an error.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

I think we can all agree that it is possible for a turntable to be "Timeline speed accurate" and sound bad, for other reasons. It is also possible for a turntable to be slightly inaccurate for speed under load and still sound great.

Dear Raul, Your cabeza is como un rock when it comes to tubes vs transistors, but could you not at least admit that the "distortion" (your word for everything that is not perfect) due to "tubes" would be qualitatively categorically different from distortion due to turntable speed aberration. So, why do you even bring it up on this thread? The subject is not relevant.

Thuchan, I completely agree with you that Timeline is the most accurate device. I added SDS to my VPI table soon after Timeline became available. Seeing how it was such a nifty toy, I bought one before I even own any strobe. I was surprised when my local dealer came over to set up my VPI using Kab strobe and when I put on Timeline, I could see how far off Kab strobe was in comparison to Timeline.
Initially I was glad I bought Timeline and even told my local dealer that they need to get one immediately because otherwise they cannot set up turntable properly.

Now a few years later, having gone through 2 Micro Seiki Turntable, 2 VPI tables and TW (keeping 3), I became a bit disillusion about Timeline. First, yes, I can dial in SDS and Micro Seiki and get steady line with Timeline. TW is always either a bit faster or slowly as the interval on speed controller is larger than SDS (I am using BN battery powered controller, no I don't know if my hold 20 hours charge but on my day off, I can use my TW for several hours with no need to recharge). I always measure with arm down on the table. The whole usual routine and tried to be as accurate as possible. One thing I could never compensated for though is the actual mass of Timeline itself. On TW, I prefer using no center weight. VPI HRX center weight is 6-700g if I remember correctly. I use Orsonic clamp with Micro Seiki. I have a few center weights lying around and tried many more up to 1 kg but this is currently what I have. Timeline itself unfortunately does not work so well for me as center weight otherwise it would solve the biggest problem for me. If I remember correctly, Timeline is about 200 odd grams. Using Timeline instead of my usual center weight, I will get one speed but as soon as I take off Timeline and put on my usual center weight, the speed will be changed.
Timeline is so sensitive that even a 200g weight change on a heavy Microseiki or TW platter, you can detect speed difference. Try calibrating speed with Timeline using 120g LP and 200g LP, you will notice a change in speed as well.
Does every Timeline user recalibrate or make a note to adjust speed controller every time they change LP?
How do you compensate for differences in mass of center weight use or if you don't use center weight.
This drives me nut for a while until I finally realize that it is not simple to acheive 100% accurate speed per Timeline reading in practice. Looks nice on paper, sounds great in theory but at the end of the day, I just settled for getting close enough to Timeline is just a-okay.
After I stop obsessing with fidgetting with Timeline, it was a lot easier to enjoy the music.
I still use Timeline as I did not bother to buy a strobe. On TW, I just pick the speed that is just a tad slower than Timeline's speed figuring that without Timeline, it will speed up a tad. On VPI SDS/Micro Seiki, I could dial in perfectly but I know that as soon as I put on my usual center weight, speed will be a bit off and I settled for that. I usually use 180g Lp to calibrate, when I listen to 120g, 100g, 200g LP, I know that speed will be a bit off as well and I settled for that as well.
Absolute speed accuracy is nice but the only acceptable speed, I don't think so.

Raul, Lewn, I also totally agree with you completely.

I'm fortunate in having two turntables......the DD Victor TT-101 which keeps perfect speed via the Timeline regardless of record clamps, weight of record, type of cartridge and VTA......and even regardless of whether there are no arms tracking the record or three arms tracking the record.
The other turntable......the Raven AC-2 which must be set with the cartridge tracking the grooves and can get very, very close to complete accuracy via the Timeline.....but because of its controller, will be either slightly fast or slightly slow. But consistently so.
The differences in sound due to the timing in the two turntables is undetectable in my system so Raul, Lew and Suteetat are all correct in their predictions on this issue.
As long as a turntable is revolving at a CONSISTENT speed........whether slightly slow or fast........is all that really matters.