2. analog
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Are there other Artisan Fidelity TT owners aorund?

So after being an audio hobbyist since my uncle got me going down this demented path some 17 years ago I finally purchased a TT. I had flirted with the idea for a very long time but honestly I've heard a number of TT's at shows and at buddies homes and none of them moved me. Now obviously many many variables are involved. Lets start with, was their TT setup correctly (superlatively).., I don't know. Was the arm/cartridge combination simpatico.., again, I don't know. Was the phono preamp just so-so or great and if it was great was the cartridge loaded correctly.., you get my drift.

So with my digital down through the years easily besting (to my ears) the analog I'd been privy to, I found no reason to spend the money required to involve myself with analog. My former Bidat easily dispatched a SOTA Cosmos Vacuum TT in a head to head listening session. Ditto for my former Dynavox Dynastation.., same with my AMR DP777...etc.

At Axpona last year I listened to the $170K Clearaudio TT along with about $85K worth of Pass Amplification and perhaps $200K worth of JM Labs speaker and cabling only to be more moved by the sound from the Playback Design MPD-5 in the same room.

Finally I realized the only way I would ever find out for myself would be to purchase my OWN TT and make sure it was expertly setup and dialed-in. I had a rare chance to purchase a latest-revision-pristine example of a Graaf GM70 Phono Preamplifier. I have a soft spot for Graaf as Mr. Mariani simply builds the finest gear I have laid ears on. So now I have this phono pre sitting in the box for a few months when I see a SP 10 MK III come up for sale in Agon. So, I threw caution to the wind and contacted Chris at Artisan Fidelity; after some conversation I hung up having just commissioned the building of a SP10 MKIII Next Gen TT.

I was happy for about a month then the fear started to creep in, "what have I done?". What if this thing SUCKS!!!! and my digital system which is very very very good if I do say so myself stomps it!

During the build I researched and read tons of user reviews (I don't really pay attention to so-called pro reviewers) on arms and cartridges. I finally settled (with a lot of talking to Chris and other friends and a lot of late night web searching) on the Kuzma 4 Point and the Ortofon MC Anna.

So, here we are today and I have had my TT for a little over 3 weeks now and I have about 150 - 160 hours on the rig. Early on it sounded ok, you know.., good but nothing special. I liked it but my digital was fully up to the task and in some cases much better :) (now I'm scared)

Ok, so fast forward to 100 hours.., ok, I think I'm starting to understand all this analog hype :) better and better. now we are at 150 hours.., the word SUBLIME comes to mind. The spaciousness, openness and natural continuity of the analog is addictive. The dynamics seem to go on forever along with a naturalness that is very difficult to put into words. I did purchase the Furutech Demag, the Destat II, a scale..., all the toys to go along with it :) Again, I wanted to know for myself and the only way to do that was to take the plunge.

So how does my digital hold up? Well, my well run-in long time AMR DP777 has NOTHING to be ashamed of. It sounds great and I can easily go from the TT to the DP without too much shock (the AMR guys are big vinyl heads and use vinyl as a reference when designing) BUT... when I have two equally well recorded pieces of music (Best of Eva Cassidy comes to mind or Diana Krall Live in Paris 24/96 vs 180g/45) as good as my digital sounds the SP10MK III simply walks away. Again the digital is not trodden underfoot and indeed 20 seconds of the digital and you will be into it fully, but the analog rig beguiles with its effervescent ease and infinite continuity of musical flow.

Ok, so to end this long synopses.., I am now deeply into analog and have been going to local used record stores and burning up my cc on Music Direct and Acoustic Sounds...etc.

The folks at Artisan Fidelity are the real deal and they built me a museum quality +180 pound Porsche Basalt Black TT/piece of art that sounds AMAZING!!!!

I also ordered a Bassocontinuo Apogeo rack for the table which should arrive in about 2 weeks. I am enjoying my foray into the land of analog!!!

THANKS CHRIS!!!!!!!
audiofun
audiofun OP
799 posts
 
This is a general FYI for SP10MK3 and MK2 owners. When I first received my SP10MK 3 I was contacted by a representative for the Krebs mod here on Agon. The guy was nice enough and we sent a few emails back and forth. As a software developer and degreed Elec Eng I like to know what a mod (at least some tech stuff to consider the efficacy of the intended modification) consists of, I do not need to know the intellectual property behind the modification. In other words a high level explanation of what I am paying for will suffice and I can make an intelligent decision based on what I hear. Examples would be, we rework the PLL's, we bypass key electrolytics, wire is changed in key location to a much better grade, clocks are changed...etc. I resist Magic Black Box changes i.e. you can't tell me anything except that after 100 plus hours it will be better sounding. I mentioned that I knew of a mod where the modification consisted of shooting the SP10 MK3 full of some sort of organic gunk.., for over a thousand dollars. Yes you read that right. I have a number of buddies with TT's and I saw one first hand with one such mod. It was NASTY!!! an oily viscous fluid had been applied to the innards of the MK3 and one buddy stated that is smelled like linseed oil... it was starting to harden and stink. This is a shame as there are very few of these MK3 tables left in the wild. I HUMBLY suggest if a modifier does not stipulate to something like "We DO NOT fill your MK3 full of (xyz) fluid (oil, linseed oil, crisco :)" I would not let them have my table. I am pretty sure I know who did this as I know of at least one of the modders on this table. I am investigating and once I am 100% sure I will share it. I am doing this as a community service. I would personally avoid a modification of this nature like the PLAGUE. Again this is one man’s opinion and of course we are all free to do as we please.

SAVE THE SP10 MK3's LOL

ok, I couldn't help but put the last part in, wish I had a bumper sticker.
richardkrebs
418 posts
 
Audiofun
Re the Krebs upgrade
It was I who contacted you in a genuine desire to help you realise the full potential of your MK3
Indeed, one part of my upgrade is the targeted application of an organic oil. I can assure you, this oil does not harden, but does stop being sticky, after around 4 months. It then becomes stable and enjoys considerable longevity, it also stops smelling. I first used this material in my electrostatic EHT power supplies back in 1993. A recent check has confirmed that it has retained its elasticity and shows absolutely zero sign of any breakdown or tracking. It is being used as a dielectric in this supply, exposed to 5000 volts.
Ironically there is a type of glue used in the MK2 motor which on random units has broken down. If required this is repaired when the motor is disassembled.

I first started development of my upgrade in 1995, where this oil was applied to a specific part of my MK3 motor. Again, to date, it shows no deterioration after the considerable passage of time. I consider my MK3 to be my most precious piece of audio equipment. It is used virtually daily and has been completely trouble free, aside from a failure of the speed control IC. A problem which they are known for.
I would never do anything to this motor which could damage it. I intend to live with my MK3 until my last breath.
Bill Thalmann is the only person authorised to undertake my upgrade in the US. He is a well respected and experienced electrical engineer in the audio field. It is his opinion that my upgrade would actually serve to enhance the reliability of the motor. He has upgraded his on own MK3, obviously in full knowledge of what the procedure entails. Photos of his work on the motor do not look "nasty"
Dave of Sound HIFi in the UK is the other person authorised to undertake the upgrade. He is also a qualified electrical engineer and has designed and built controllers for TTs in the technics range. He also endorses my work, as do customers like Pass Labs and Triplaner.
The specific application of the oil is just one part of the upgrade. Additionally there are structural enhancements made to the motor skeleton and the speed sensor. Along with the obvious, cleaning and re lubing of the bearing, plus for a nominal fee, replacement of the thrust pad, if required.

Anyone who has completely pulled apart a MK3 motor will know that it is a delicate and time consuming task. Considering the hours involved, the fee charged is modest.

There may be modders out there who are indiscriminately applying "organic gunk" to the innards of MK2s and MK3s.
As always caveat emptor

Richard.
audiofun OP
799 posts
 
Richard, thank you for taking the time to graciously expound on this subject. I think your last entry ("caveat emptor") was an appropriate axiom with which to end.
dover
2,199 posts
 
Audiofun,
I do agree with you on the need to take care on modifications to collectible equipment.
When Technics SP10 owners are contemplating the krebsupgrade they should be aware that there are legal exclusions of liability for any breakages incurred during the modification and that the modifications are irreversible.
I quote from the krebsupgrade website -
Some Legal Items:
All due care will be taken with your precious motor, however there is a remote possibility that a fragile or previously damaged but still functioning part could fail. In the unlikely event of this happening. We will do our best to repair or replace this part but we cannot guarantee a fix and cannot be held accountable for this failure.

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
If I dont like the upgrade can it be removed?
Due to the nature of some of the materials used the complete upgrade cannot be reversed.

It is also of concern that no measurements or objective tests have been provided to support the krebsupgrade claims.

I have auditioned a Technics SP10mk2 before and after the krebs modifications. The SP10mk2 sounded smoother but gluggy after the modifications. According to krebs this "gluggy" goes away after several months, but owners should be aware that if they do not like the changes, the mods are irreversible. In my view the modified SP10mk2 is miles away in performance from a standard SP10mk3. In audio as is true in life there are no free lunches.

Comparing the krebs Technics SP10mk2 to a standard Kenwood L07D and replinthed and blueprinted Garrard 401; to my ears the Garrard 401 was superior to either the L07D or the krebs modified SP10. In particular the Garrard was more coherent and presented a more integrated sound through the whole musical spectrum.

I have also heard krebs own SP10mk3 on numerous occasions from when he first purchased it in the late 80's. I last heard krebs SP10mk3 about 5 yrs ago, certainly since 1995 when he first used the oil.
The krebs modified SP10mk3 to my ears has always lacked resolution, transparency and musical coherency compared to my Final Audio VTT1.
04-05-14: Richardkrebs
The SP 10 range in standard from is noisy, not in the conventional sense but noise which is a function of the music being played. There is also a tension, stress if you will, to the presentation and a greyness that over time is downright irritating.

I could not live with a standard SP10 MK 2 or 3. I don't have to, but I very happily live with my worked SP10 Mk 3.

Apparently there have been further "claimed improvements" that remove the grey gunge, but I cannot attest to the veracity of these claims.

It is noteworthy that Artisan Fidelity in contrast to the Krebsupgrade has a complete list of modifications and test procedures for their SP10 refurbishment and enhancements on their website.

richardkrebs
418 posts
 
Audiofun and Dover.

Firstly I will leave it to the growing number of industry leaders who are using my upgrade in their MK2 and Mk3 motors, to attest to the efficacy of my work. These audio manufacturers are using my worked motors as their analogue LP reference to evaluate their own equipment.
Further while measurements are of great importance, we cannot listen to them. See my web site for unedited customer reviews.

It is an interesting irony that the use of an excellent plinth like the Artisan Fidelity, actually exposes more, the greyness to which I refer. This because the plinth removes so much of the coloration that lesser plinths introduce. The intrinsic coloration of the motor itself is then laid bare. Once this greyness is heard it cannot be forgotten.


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