External hard drives and sound quality

Herman - Russian fleas are very special.
I would go back to my example with Benchmark DAC1. Even if jitter rejection of this DAC would be perfect people would still claim that it is not, because different drives sound different (read info from CD differently). I don't have any problem with that as long as people don't make conclusion that Benchmark is jitter sensitive.

In your case when exactly same data lands inside of processor memory it has to be outputted same way. Sound might be different - I don't question your hearing but not because of the fact that data delivered to DAC is different.

So many other things might affect test. We often forget about noise created by dimmer switches or the fact that radio stations have to cut power in half around 6PM (FCC regulation) or about warm-up of the gear.

The only thing I know for sure is that data delivered to D/A converter will be exactly same with different drives if they use exactly same file. Other than that I agree that they might sound different for the reason of electrical noise or ground loops (or something else) that affect analog section of the system.

Kijanki, I think we are in agreement on this. When we get out of the realm of low to mid fi systems where it is very easy for most of us to hear a difference and for the most part we can agree on which sounds better; we get into the upper end systems where it starts to become a matter of preference rather than right or wrong and a lot of what may be a subtle or even inconsequential difference to one might be a deal breaker for another. One who is a big fan of vocal music and focuses on midrange purity may be oblivious to abnormalities in the bass region that a fan of rock and roll would find horrendous.

Onhwy61, if you had followed the thread you would know that nobody here is arguing that the data is corrupted, only that there may be some other mechanism in play that affects the sound of the system. Having a computer add 2 and 2 to get 4 when it doesn't really matter how long it takes to come up with the answer within reason is much different than processing data in real time to produce audio.

Puerto, play some files from your internal drive to see whether or not it is the external. You can get a cheap toslink for a few bucks that will tell you if the fiber is defective. Try your headphones and DAC and whatever else with a different computer. Continue in that vein until you isolate the problem.

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Thanks Herman for pitching in since this thread took off in the last 24 hours.

If somebody does hear a difference in sound by changing disk drives or their connection type, it is not because the data is coming back differently from the disk which would be an obvious reason for change in sound. I think everybody should agree on that. And that was my point.

The contention point, just like so many others in the audio world, is that some people claim they heard a difference. So it's just a matter of did they really hear a difference or just remember incorrectly. Since you can only hear one at a time, the comparison has to made from memory. So far, from what I've done personally and read about, nobody's memory of audio is accurate enough to be trusted as "correct". A large part of the audio world is based on the opposite to be true. No problem. It brings great enjoyment for some and $$$ for many manufacturers.

If you are going to use a PC for a "high quality" digital front end, you really should not be doing D/A in it. Send the PCM stream to an external Firewire or Asynchronous USB based DAC. That way nothing needs a clock till it gets from the memory buffer to the DAC chip inside a "non-noisy" enclosure.

Also, Kijanki brought up a good point about different drives could contain slightly different rips/encodes. That is possible, but I wouldn't think ripping a CD to a .wav file or lossless file would come out so differently that it would produce audible differences. But for "testing" the same source audio file should be copied to the various disk devices to rule out any issues.

And for a little OT, if any of you are Beatles fans and have not seen/heard Cheap Trick perform Sgt. Peppers, make sure you get the DVD or CD. It's awesome!

"If you are going to use a PC for a "high quality" digital front end, you really should not be doing D/A in it. Send the PCM stream to an external Firewire or Asynchronous USB based DAC. That way nothing needs a clock till it gets from the memory buffer to the DAC chip inside a "non-noisy" enclosure."

Agree with that and suggest network players (wired or wireless)designed specifically for home audio use is another very good way to isolate the DAC process from the inherently noisy PC environment, which CAN affect the analog domain if the DAC process occurs there.

Interestingly, I have a few CDRs that I recorded from internet radio via analog output from my computer to system and CD recorder early on a couple years back. When I listen to these today along side everything else, they are noise free and hold up pretty well.

However, I think in general analog output from a potentially noisy computer can be problematic so I think that isolating the DAC process as mentioned is a best practice even though good results might still be had.

There are plenty of grey areas for end users in the arena of upper end audio, let alone the now addition of industrial appliances like personal confusers we want to add to the presiding mix.

Trial and error and A versus B versus C etc, still shines the best light towards gaining both exp and performance increases. In the best of scenarios I think we can only emulate and never duplicate the exp of one members trials in some other members situation. So we approximate and consider different approaches.

The only points then of contention are Empirical evidence . Not those of subjective association. In every area other than purely measured evidentiary relms, we must at times agree to disagree, or merely accept those results for what they are unique individual experiences that likely can not be duplicated or replicated. The truth then lays with the perception of the beholder.

Any closer or further insights then will come directly from the attempt to emulate someone else’s particular scenario as best one can for all practical intents and purposes .. or those results can be simply accepted as that person’s unique findings, as I previously indicated. Nothing more.

Unless we can put a clock on it or a meter.. or some other widely accepted measuring apparatus it’s all hearsay and not point of fact reasoning. Arguing such a thing then seems fruitless for seldom does every party have likewise past events in common or even in recent memory.

True too, even measured events can be argued on several points.

At those instances, perhaps it is best to input “Oh yeah? How about that! Good for you. Maybe I’ll check that out myself someday more closely.” Or some such yada yada stuff.

It’s very likely too, there’s an element of truth in each account.

FWIW

Once folks begin to view the PC/Mac as an actual high end audio or video component instead of just a ‘pc’, and address it as such as mentioned somewhat here in this thread, your listening experience and operating performance will, or can be elevated.

Ever try opening up the tower’s case by simply removing the side cover? I do it to all my boxes. It reduces the ‘electrical’ noise level . Though not the rest of the noises it makes such as the video cards fan, drives etc. If outside the listening room in a closet or something, this does indeed help to that one end.

Putting a layer of thin closed cell foam on it if left in place will help reduce it’s overall ambient noise factor too. Simply adding or laying material over the top and either side of the tower will deaden it’s noise level too. the esthetic there however is up to the owner, as to just what they’re willing to do or how fancy they’ll get.

Another approach some projector owners use for their more noisey projectors are “hush boxes”. Enclosures such as those seem to me to have enough worth to nvestigate for those whose drives and/or computers reside in the listening environment itself, and not in some ‘sequestered’ area.

At every turn we get to ask ourselves repeatedly, the same question, “Just how deep down the rabbit hole are we going to go this time for this change or replacement, or addition to our system?”

As for outright ambient or back ground noise levels in drives Every online or big box store I’ve done any buying from has a return policy. Buy one and try it. If noisey send it back and try another. The actual degree of noise given off from one unit to another these days is so minimal as to not be critical.

If the noise level is critical the owner MUST then take additional measures to amend things. Eg., above.