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CARDAS Fans: Golden vs. Neutral vs. Presence?

I know the Reference series is considered to have less of the traditional house Cardas sound. However, I've read many differing opinions that leave me in the dark as to what they sound like.

Also, one 6moons reviewer liked the Golden Ref IC more than the Golden Ref speaker cable. He found the speaker cable somewhat lean, though detailed and transparent. The most worrisome trait, though, was that he found there to be a loss of "body sound" to vocals and strings, with an emphasis on what he called the "head sound." And the bass a bit overblowsn. This was compared to Nirvana S-L.

Then there is both the Neutral Ref and the Golden Presence. I know what Cardas says about them on their website, so I don't need their descriptions of how they hear them.

Many people find the Neutral Reference too lean with brightness on less than ideal recordings. And the bass seems to be good, but not as deep and tight as it could be.

Then there is the Golden Presence. Few have written about it, but there are a couple of people who like it best of all the Reference series.

Can I get some informed opinions on both the interconnects and the speakers cables of all three models?
zear
muralman1
1,527 posts
 
Zear, Those cables were brought to my house by a CODA salesman. On his amp. you couldn't hear the fizzzz. He also brought Jena cables.

They sinned too, though less noticeably. MIT have been the worst.

These cables are carrying the signal to my speakers. The fact naked wire produces no hiss, and the Cardas has metal conductors, I can only think it is the thick cable jacket that is noisy.
zear OP
69 posts
 
Muralman, your system looks killer, and your posts show you to be a well-seasoned audiophile.

From your MIT comment, I would guess you hate networked cables. My only experience was with a borrowed Transparent that sounded pretty good at the time to my ears, though probably pumped up and larger than life, so it impressed me.

Are you referring to Gold Ref shielding and/or outer jacketing as the noisemakers?

Perhaps the Gold Presence w/less shielding would sound better.

Have you fooled around with the AQ DBS stuff? Curious how that may effect dielectric issues.
sns
3,003 posts
 
Zear, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think it is the shielding on the Presence that is different than GR, rather it is less conductors.
I've also owned and demoed Synergistic Resolution Ref. and Absolute Refs. the active shielding does make for a quieter cable, but not necessarily a better cable. The quietness/blackness of a cable is only one aspect of what makes a cable sound the way it does. There are so many variables in a cable, that to put too much emphasis on one aspect of it's design is fruitless.
zear OP
69 posts
 
SNS, on Golden Presence, there are obviously less conductors than G ref (4 groups vs. 12 groups). But, on the IC, I am pretty sure the design is very similar. So it should sound much different than Neutral Ref IC, and more like G Ref. But what do I know?

SNS, you use Speltz as well. Is this anywhere in the same league? I've heard both praise and lackluster comments on the Speltz.
sns
3,003 posts
 
Yes, surprisingly, the Speltz cable is at least in the same league. Thus far I've only used it from my DAC to preamp (replacing Cardas Golden Ref), and it only has about 125 hours of burn in. I've tried many of the relatively inexpensive cables in the past and have never been much impressed, ie. I was somewhat cynical about the cudos given this cable. At this point I'm really impressed with this cable, at this price it is a no-brainer, it compares with much higher cost cables.

I hear really wonderful transparency/detail, tonal balance perhaps a bit on the warm side, actually, very similar to the GR in my system. I have only a couple of small nits thusfar, it seems a tad more aggresive on the attacks than the GR, the GR seems to accentuate the decays rather than the attacks. Image density and demensionality are a tad thinner as well, GR's really excell in the spaciousness category. Finally, there is a bit of confusion in more complex passages. The slight aggresiveness and confusion could be due to either RFI/EMI or lack of burn in. The info sheet that comes with the cable, and talk in the forums indicates these cables may need 500 hours to fully burn in.

I am somewhat skeptical that any wire needs 500 hours to burn in, 100 hours has been the usual mark in my experience. Anyway, I'm burning in the cable further at the moment, I will listen again at 200 hours, then 500 hours. Even as is, this cable is worth a listen, it may be all one needs! Keep in mind I'm only using the single IC, Golden Ref and PAD Dominus everywhere else, a full system of Speltz IC's and speaker cable, who knows?
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