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Creative Cabling for Bass Quality

I originally posted this in a thread about improving the bass quality of Legacy Classic speakers, but I suspect other speaker owners might benefit from what eventually worked best for bass with the Classics.

It all began with me feeling the bass of my Legacy Classics lacked a bit of definition. Tightening loose screws on the woofers, tilting the speakers back a few degrees, and playing with room placement all helped, but not enough (I also tried plugging the ports, as one Audiogoner suggested, but thought the bass sounded terribly constipated). I biwired, and that helped too, but not enough.

I next tried biamping and found that tubes so sweetened the top end I didn't care for awhile about low end imperfections. As luck would have it, my Proceed preamp offered stereo sub output, and allowed a setting of 120hz -- thus matching the Classics’ low crossover point. Assigning my McCormack power amp to driving the woofers alone helped tighten the bass too, yet I still wasn't happy.

Next I wondered if bass-specific wiring might help. I had been using high end MIT cables for all, but now decided to use it only for the mid and upper ranges. After some experimentation I reasoned that speedy silver for the bass end might help tighten things, so I tried Signal Cable’s Silver Resolutions, and wala! . . . bass did indeed tighten significantly; further, despite warnings from some, I noticed absolutely no synch problems from using different cables for lows and mid/highs. Thinking a cable with more silver might work even better, I tried 12g pure silver, but lost the quickness (and then some) the Signals provided. I surmised that the skin effect rendered those particular thick silver cables sluggish.

I put the Signal Cable Silver Resolutions back in, and for a time lived happily with that set up (i.e., Silver Resolutions on bottom, MIT on mid/top). But being an avid jazz listener, in due course I missed the bass "weight" that the Silver Resolutions sacrifice to get bass quickness.

Hmmmmmm, what to try. I wondered if thick, flat copper like that found in Analysis Plus cables might help, and since a pair of Oval 9s were selling cheap here at Audiogon, I tried them. Sure enough, they added major bass weight, but completely annulled the quickness of the Silver Resolutions! Grrrrrrrrrr.

And here's when the best thing happened.

I had ordered the Silver Resolutions terminated with banana plugs, while the Analysis Plus Oval 9s sported spades; the posts for bass on the Classics, of course, allow for both spades and bananas, so I hooked BOTH the Signals and Analysis Plus cables to the bass-end set of posts, and then to my McCormack.

All I could do was sigh with satisfaction when I heard it. Exactly the effortlessly quick and weighty bass I'd imagined possible from the Legacys. And now many hours of listening later, I am still unreservedly content with that cabling arrangement. The only tweaking thoughts I've had is trying Oval 8s if I ever see a bargain, and possibly trying silver ICs between the preamp and McCormack someday (I’m using Audio Metallurgy GA-0 ICs now . . . actually I wish AM would make some silver GA-0s, I think their magnetic technology is a very effective concept).
les3547
les3547 OP
22 posts
 
". . . . is if you were not using a Cable as a tone control to an extent than what in the world would you be spending so much money on cables in the first place if you did not expect them to change the sound to your liking!"

Hi Undertow,

I can't answer your positive and negative wire route question, but I can answer what you ask in the above quote. For me, the number one, primary, main thing I'm after is to have the signal transferred from the CD to my speakers as close as possible to the way it was recorded. So I, for the most part, do not want tone control.

Now, I say "for the most part" because there are a couple of exceptions to tonal control, but even there I want the control somewhere besides through my cables. What are the exceptions?

One is the fact that since I exclusively use CDs, and therefore a digital signal, I want to sweeten the digital edge on high and midrange frequencies. That I've been able to achieve by biamping and using tube amplification for the upper/mids.

A second reason I attempt some degree of tonal control is because of the excesses of some CDs. For example, an album I like is "Nature" by Dave's True Story. The bass on that album is too strong, but because I run my woofers as "stereo subs" out of my preamp, I can easily moderate the excessive bass.

As for the bass in general, I don't see that as much of a "tonal" issue . . . what I want is for the woofers to respond just as tight and strong as the originating signal is calling for. As I detailed in my above posts, I found my wiring was singling out bass weight or definition at the expense of other, so my cabling efforts were meant to bring out the full range of the originating signal rather than "add" something tonal to the signal.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Les3547,
This is the exact issue I question... What is the originating signal and how do you know its not sounding exactly as the originating signal with or without a Monster cable, a Cardas, or "insert cable here" with each different piece of gear? Fact is you might need more or less of something.. Again hence its a tone control method, otherwise why add, combine, or try any different materials!?

Who is to say that it is now because of this mix the correct sound? Who can verify that except for yourself?(meaning anyone, not just you in general)

Again nothing wrong with finding the sound you like, but if a CD is lets say "Thin" or "Heavy" or "Enhanced" you would never know what this supposed mythical muse of neutral, natural, or correct really is, especially if your proving this exact point and my point needing to mix materials and methods to get "Original Tone" because even if it is in fact "Original tone" and I can agree you have probably found it, what got it to that original tone? Thats right you said yourself your Cables did!!

Hence again, yes they are in fact acting as a tone control to fix or at least subtract any insufficiencies in the recording you are saying now sounds better, because the recording did not change, your cables did, so that did in fact change the tone in the end.

By the way I am not arguing but making a very clear point..

We are funny figures as audiophiles trying to prove that we are all just trying to do things "The right way" in the end we are altering and doing what it takes to make the signal sound good, not necessarily Right, otherwise we would not be changing anything if we could just leave it alone and say it sounds how it is suppose too, it took methods for you to get that tone, and it was thru several things I am sure with changing electronics, re-mastered recordings, and or Cables.

So getting the "Correct" sounding cables is here nor there, realistically and technically we are using them as a tone control in these methods regardless if we think they don't add or take color away like a Equlaizer or loudness knob...
les3547 OP
22 posts
 
Hi Undertow,

I would say if you are going to define tone as you have, I can't disagree. But it seems you are also saying there is no objective standard by which to judge sound (e.g. "Who is to say that it is now because of this mix the correct sound").

First I would say, as all the humble audiophiles here say, that the "correct" sound is what appeals to one's subjective taste. However, there is for some, a more foundational standard one strives for as well, and that is how music sounds in a live setting -- from studio and night club to concert. When the objective becomes to recreate some particular natural setting, then we do in fact have an objective standard by which to decide what is most "correct."

Looking back on my experimentation with cables, I can see I have judged a cable effective primarily by two criteria: first and foremost by much information a cable allows through, and then how close to "natural" it sounds. When I switched the Signal Cable for the 12g solid silver, it was immediately obvious the solid silver was conveying far less information. BAD CABLE! :)

I know I like MIT (if not the price), for example, because they seem to deliver an unaffected signal. I know this because of trying other cables that warm or cool. I believe the only way this is done is by deleting information and/or accentuating other information.

To me, the way to go is find cables that reveal everything, and then adjust other equipment (unless one can't afford to). The exception to this (in this little theory) is choices that diminish the digital effect; that seems justified given "digitalness" is an artificial and unwanted addition to sound.
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