2. misc-audio
  3. 1036622016

What do you think about this cable company?

In this thread I am going to withhold the names to protect the guilty. However, everything I state is true, and I have documented in correspondance I have had with a certain cable company's distributor.

About a month ago I posted a brief comment on an Audiogon thread where I offered to do a review of a rather inexpensive cable,

Here is the link to that thread:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1034463095&openusid&zzTok20000&4&5#Tok20000

Anyway, I receive an email from a distributor of a different cable company that sells expensive hi end interconnects. This distributor offered me the cables for 30 days with no strings attached for review. I thought to myself that this would be be a great chance to demo some of the finest cables made in the world, and possibly get them at a good discount if I really liked them. I would in turn tell the truth in my review since I really did not have anything to loose or gain by doing this review.

So we (myself and the cable distributor) emailed back and forth about 14 or so times discussing the agreement, and about 3 weeks ago he ordered the cables. He did not have XLR cables in stock and he had to order them which takes approx 2 weeks.

During this time, I decide to buy a reference turntable/tonearm combo (Rega P9 w/RB1000 tonearm) to better help me in the review. I also buy several albums that are particularly good recordings that I know many audiophiles have. I also start really spending a lot of time getting a good handle on my system's sound with the Nordost QF IC and SPM speaker cable. My system really does sound good with this combination. I spend easily 20 hours getting prepared to do this review...

I then am informed by the distributor that the cables have arrived and that he is going to put them on a cable cooker for a few days. Sure thing I think.

About 5 days go by and I do not hear anything from the distributor. I send him a few emails to no reply. Finally he emails me with the following news:

The manufacturer has changed their policy to only let distributors send out cables to people who prepay for the cables. Thus, if you want the cables you are going to have to pay for them before I can send them to you.

I have put a lot of time and effort into getting ready to do this review, and the manufacturer wants me to send the distributor money after the distributor proposed to let me use the cables for 30 days with no strings attached to do a review of their cables.......

I then sent an email stating that I could not afford the cables unless I sold my Nordost QF and SPM which I would be judging the cables against. I asked the distributor that he talk to the manufacturer to make an exception.

Low and behold, I find out there are NO EXCEPTIONS.

What do you think folks? I think it is sad that a manufacturer will not back up their distributor.

Would anyone buy cables from a company that pulled stunts like this? Or maybe I am being too hard on the company and the distributor? I was pretty upset about the last developments, and I have sunk way too much time into this review endeavor.

Let me know what you think.

KF
128x128tok20000
tok20000's avatar
tok20000 OP
608 posts
 
I like these rules Trelja. I am going to cut and paste them and save them.

Also, folks I did not buy my new Rega P9 solefy for the review. However, I was motivated to upgrade my vinyl for the review. I probably would have put off buying a new TT for a bit if I did not think I was going to be reviewing these cables.

The only reasons why I asked for a discount on the cables was because of the following:
1 - I am putting a lot of my time into reviewing the cables, if I like them, I would like to be able to afford them.
2 - I do not put ANY cables or components into my system that I CANNOT afford. It is very painful to remove a component from your system that is superior in your system than the component that it replaced. I learned this a long time ago...
3 - I could not afford the cables at full retail price.

Frankly, I did not care either way if I liked the cables or not. This was going to be the beauty of the review. I had no insentive either way to like them or not like them. If the cables did not work better than the SPM/QF in my system, I could easily write that review and send the cables back. If I liked the cables better, I could write that review, and sell my QF and SPM and raise a bit more cash and buy the cables.

I am not one to equate more $$$ with better cables or even components. For example, I would love to try the Analysis Plus Oval Crystal (Analysis Plus is NOT the above manufacturer mentioned above) cables in my system and discover that they are better than the SPM/QF combo. This would be great because it would save me $$$ since the AP runs about 1/3 the cost of the Nordost cables. I could sell my Nordost and sink the $$$ into vinyl, heh heh. I am looking at Demoing some of the AP cables right now. AP and their dealers are much better to deal with than the above mentioned one. And if I found out my Nordost was still better, well the AP dealer would take back the cables.

KF
onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,150 posts
 
Tok20000, please do not take my earlier post as a personal indictment against you. It was not my intention to question your integrity and if I have done so, then I sincerely apologize.

However, the situation you described does raise ethical issues. Let's say the cables you were offered sold for $1,000 MSRP and that after your review you could have acquired them at a 50% discount. In effect, the distributor has given you $500 of monetary consideration for your efforts. That's why I would use the term "paid endorsement". I used to think that one of the most powerful comments a reviewer can make about a product is that they purchased the review sample. I guess I should now take such comments with a grain of salt.
viggen
838 posts
 
Are we speaking about Orbeck? They seem to be the rudest company that ever spammed me. And, they have the nerve...
tok20000's avatar
tok20000 OP
608 posts
 
No, Orbeck did send me an email, but they were very polite. Orbeck did not take me up on my offer that I made to them in my post on their thead.

Always read a review with a grain of salt no matter who is doing the review. This is my motto. I tend to read reviews for mainly entertainment value, and to get some idea of what a piece sounds like (but I still want to hear for myslef). This can also be applied to listening to any system or speakers in an audio store. People listen to a set of speakers in a store, and come to some conclusions about them right then... Many times they forget they are also hearing all the equipment driving the speakers. Personal home demonstration is best with any component.

Always remember that professional reviewers tend to make less than $300 per review AND do get at least 40% off retail any high end stuff they buy. Companies also have a habbit of sending them gifts CDs and audio associated products. They also write reviews for magazines that have advertising that is bought by the same manufacturers that they are reviewing. I see this as a small conflict of interest. I think it was funny all the controversy brought about when Stereophile started advertising BMW cars in the magazine. Many people went into an uproar. Heck, I applauded the car ads. At least these car ads do not represent a conflict of interest like audio manufacturers advertising in a publication while their products are being reviewed.

I think independant audiophiles do not have the nearly as much conflict of interest as reviewers for audio publications. This is why I wanted to do the review. I wanted to give the Audiogon community an honest opinion about these cables in my system. But of coarse, my review would be in my system only, and for this reason, anything I had to say should still be taken with a grain of salt. Unless you have the exactly same gear as I do... then you should take everything I say as Gosphel.

:-)

KF
trelja
3,223 posts
 
Tok2000, you are a well intentioned, honorable person.

I think this episode is serving as a learning experience, which is what life is all about. Continuing to grow forever, as if we do not grow, we are regressing.

Cable companies are a breed apart in audio. You are wise to formulate a strategy for dealing with them. I only came to these conclusions because of a lot of frustration that would come out on either side of the relationship. Eventually, I had to put up this type of notice to avoid a lot of the misunderstanding that took place during an especially bad episode. Not to go into detail, but imagine a company having false intentions, viewing a "review" as a sale. Then, when the review was over, in order to return the "no longer new" cable, a depreciation fee would need to be assessed.

I have no doubts about your eagerness to become a reviewer. I think we all dream of that. Make sure you pursue it as far as you want to take it. The world of audio needs good reviewers. Just understand that a lot of the people who will come to you will not really care what you think. They are interested in having you say this cable blows all other products out of the water(to use in ad copy and get sales). They are interested in maybe having you become a distributor for them(to get sales). And, they may even be interested in selling the cable to you(no need for ad copy to generate sales).

All of this was the only reason I needed to come up with rules that make me look like an ogre.

But, I must say that the one company who I had a positive experience was fantastic. They really were interested in knowing what I heard. About the bass, its extension, impact, fullness, warmth, speed, integration with the midrange, etc. The same kind of thoroughness went along for the midrange and treble. They spent the time asking about my system, room, tastes, and music. Questions were asked like, "Does this kind of sound appeal to you", "How would you like it better", "If this were this or that, what would you think", "What would you change".

Believe it or not, based on my experience, his experience, and our correspondence, a new product was created. It is their most successful and highly regarded product. In the end, I have undying apprecation for this company, and feel the owner is one of the best people in the industry.

More to discover