cable burn-in / system burn-in

Lessloss- You apparently didn't read anything I posted. A dielectric will only charge to a degree, then it stops. That can be predicted, and therefore a cable or capacitor can be "voiced". I also stated that it's only part of the issue of burn in. You're not disagreeing with me, but with science. Perhaps you can grasp this much shorter treatise on the subject: (http://www.empiricalaudio.com/computer-audio/technical-papers/dielectric-absorption-dissipation-factor-and-q)

I just started my system again after being down for a few months. It has taken about 40hrs of play time before it has started to sound good again. I have a cd that I always play to hear the effect, which I am very familiar with. So it is kind of scientific, and not just arbitrary. So there you have it...

If you listened to music on other systems (radio, car, iPod) then this might be partly acclimatization.

If the room has changed or the position of equipment/istening position has changed then you may be acclimatizing to the new presentation (emphasis is different when equipment position/room changes and this makes your CD sound different even if your gear has not changed - this change can be HUGE and of the order of several percent at specific frequencies and sometimes even much more - changing slightly the timbre of some sounds and instruments and until you get used to this new emphasis and re-adjust your sonic memory then you will notice this)

When trying to detect small effects of less than 0.1 % or much much lower it is actually not "kind of scientific" to trust your judgement and sonic memory of a particular CD. Hearing is good but nothing like as resolving as a measurement made through precision instruments. For example it is extremely difficult to hear the difference between 0.1 % distortion and 1% distortion when listening to music -even though the difference is TEN TIMES.

Another factor that can make a real difference that will be audible is your capacitors in your equipment. If you have had your equipment in storage for many many months then some of the capacitors (depending on the design) may need reforming or may have broken down when you first powered up. This can make a difference that would in certain cases be large enough to be audible. Another factor could be stiffening of the conpliance of your speaker drivers after months of no use.

I am simply saying that you should look at all possibilties before assuming it is related to cable burn in. (Wires are the least likely item in the entire human hearing/room/system equation to cause an audible difference that you attribute to burn in)

Rodman wrote:

A dielectric will only charge to a degree, then it stops. That can be predicted, and therefore a cable or capacitor can be "voiced".

Yes, but let us differentiate whether we are here discussing cable "burn-in" or cable "settling-in"? In this thread it has already been differentiated between the two phenomena. Now, I would ask that you describe whether the voltage retention you are alluding to should result in the recurring cable "settling-in" phenomenon (occurs every time a cable is unused for a time and is reintroduced to the system), or else to the "burn-in" phenomenon, which seems to need to take place only once. It has also been said here that the "burn-in" procedure, done with a device made solely for this purpose, results in a much more profound and obvious betterment of the sound, than does simple "settling-in" in the system playing audio over time.

Or, might it be that voltage retention is altered slightly by "settling-in" and more profoundly by special "burn-in" signals, and that's all there is to it?

But the reason I feel it is important to differentiate between "burn-in" and "settling-in" is because settling-in seldom fools someone into believing that a cable or component swap has been made, whereas specially burning-in the cables makes a world of difference to the point where, really, the sound because so much more liquid, organic, smooth, etc, that it is difficult to believe it is the same cable in use.

That is the reason I believe "settling-in" is likely due to altered voltage retention, but cable "burn-in" is another beast altogether.

Don't get me wrong, I did understand your comment. I simply wanted to see how far we can go with the logic of the known science, speculate and discuss it further, if possible.

Louis Motek

Shadorne wrote: Another factor could be stiffening of the compliance of your speaker drivers after months of no use ... If you listened to music on other systems ... If the room has changed or the position of equipment/istening position has changed ... Another factor that can make a real difference that will be audible is your capacitors in your equipment ...

To which I would add: Temperature changes (temperature being a parameter which is fundamental to semiconductor operation in innumerable ways, as well as one which affects most other electronic devices to some degree or another); line voltage changes; changes in the electrical noise environment (both airborne and through the power lines); on-going aging and/or burn-in of other system components; the cleaning and de-oxidization effects on connectors resulting from removing and replacing cables; for vinyl sources, the physical effects on the records of repeated re-playings, and loosening up of the cantilever suspension material in the phono cartridge; etc., etc.

The basic point being that even if our sonic perceptions are 100% accurate (which they certainly are not at least some of the time, when subtle differences are being assessed), it is very easy to attribute the difference to the wrong variable.

My own experiences have led me to believe, btw, that "stiffening of the compliance of your speaker drivers after months of no use" could very well be the most significant of these factors, if the system has not been used for a considerable period of time.

Regards,
-- Al