VAC / Wilson cables

In the last paragraph of my most recent post, I meant to write "They assumed that the VTL Brunhilde monos, AN AMPLIFIER that outputs 750 watts/channel, would be a good choice, but having mediocre output transformers, those amps would not drives the big Pipes." (Emphasis original).

While I'm at it, I'll relate another anecdote about how good the Renaissance amps are into tough loads. Innovative in Manhattan has carried B&W speakers for many years. As people knowledgeable about the B&W 801 Nautilus know, that speaker was tough to drive properly and needed to be bi-amped with good solid-state amps to really come alive. Just for laughs, Innovative hooked up the VAC Renaissance 30/30, which outputs a bit over 30 watts/channel, into their demo pair of 801N's. The amp drove the speaker, not to really loud levels, but it drove them, and nothing blew up.

The Renaissance amps were serious amps, and as far as high-powered tube amps go, the only thing I would rate as good or better are the CAT amps (BEASTLY), the better Audio Valve monoblocks, and the Air Tight Reference. The Atma-Sphere amps are also incredibly good, but being OTL designs, there are many speakers that they will not drive.

If you want to stay with VAC but just want a bit more power, you'd be better off buying another 70/70 and having the two 70/70's converted by VAC into 140/140 monoblocks. It is easy and, beyond what you'd pay for a second 70/70, not very expensive to do. Of course, I recognize that it's very expensive to properly tube these beasts, but once you put the right tubes on them, you'll be in good shape for a very long time to come (I'm still using the same set of 300B's that I put on my 70/70 in the late 90's).

John:

I'm happy to help. I should point out, however, that there are some issues with 140's:

1) 16 output tubes biased in Class A in the same room put out HEAT - the ability to adjust A/C individually for your listening room would be a help;

2) Again because of the Class A biasing, they draw a shitload of power from the wall at all times; and

3) Retubing an amp that requires 16 high-quality 300B's is EXPENSIVE, but as noted, if you do it right, you won't have to retube again for years.

Last I heard, Kevin was offering deals on Signature upgrades for the Renaissance amps. You could perhaps buy another 70/70, convert them to 140's, and get the Signature upgrade for less than you would pay for a Phi. Kevin will of course try hard to sell you a new amp -- don't expect him to say his new amps aren't better than the amps he made ten years ago.

Finally, you may want to write to other Audiogon members who have experience running Renaissance amps. Pdreher just bought a 70/70 Signature and previously ran a 30/30 Mk. III. Member Waltersalas has experience running KR Audio 300B's with his 70/70 Mk. III. Member Wavetrader has experience running Sophia carbon plates in his 140's. Member Raquel knows a lot about these amps.

This has been a very interesting thread! I have found the Phi equipment to be the most magical tube equipment I have heard; the perfect blend of incredible detail, slam and sound stage of solid state with the bloom and decay of tubes. There is such flesh on the notes without sounding colored. Years ago I had the Phi 220's and sold them because I had Wilson MAXX's and missed the control of solid state. I reqreted selling the Phi stuff but enjoyed the Phi integrated at a friend's home. I would return home and listen to my system and wish I had the magic his did. I returned to the Signature 2a pre amp and I found it superior to the ARC REF5 and PH-7 I owned. It makes the ARC stuff sound two dimensional. I am selling my MAXX 2's and will have a tube friendly speaker and plan to buy Kevin's Phi 300. The other comment I found interesting is the claim someone else designed some of Kevin's equipment. I find that hard to believe and almost laughable. Of course Kevin is too humble to defend himself, so we'll never know!

There's no claim - Kevin Carter was indeed formerly with VAC and designed the Renaissance amps - ask Kevin Hayes and he will tell you. It's not a secret and there's nothing wrong with it.

In fact, most two-channel hi-fi companies are tiny one to four-man operations and a lot of their gear is designed for them by consultants working under contract on a per-project basis. I know that Kevin Carter has also worked on amps for Audio Art, and if asked, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he has consulted for other hi-fi brands.

Greetings, everyone.

I don't normally follow these threads, but this one has been pointed out to me, as it contains a few misunderstandings that deserve correction.

1) The electrical current draw of the Renaissance 30/30 and the Phi 200 (its nearest current price & size equivalent) are the same; ditto for the Renaissance 70/70 and the Phi 300. While the output stages of the Phi amplifiers operate in Class AB1, it is a very rich Class AB1.

2) The Phi output transformers are identical to those used in the Renaissance amplifiers. The Phi power transformers are larger and considerably more expensive. In all other cases, Phi parts are of equal or higher grade.

3) The Renaissance Series of amplifiers represented the best we could produce from 1993 through approximately 2003, when the Phi Beta Integrated, using KT88 output tubes, drew even with, and in many ways surpassed, the Renaissance sound. A year or two later, a new input/driver circuit was developed that delivers terrific sound when used with KT88 output tubes, but which is not compatible with the 300B, which requires twice the input signal swing. This circuit was first seen in the Phi 300, later in the Phi 200, and a further development is used in the Statement amplifiers.

It's not just the output tube types used that count, but the entire combination of circuit elements, parts, technique, and overall embodiment.

Please note that these comments do not apply to the Phi 110/110 or Phi 220, which did not use the new circuits.

4) Initially, the Phi 300 was offered for sale alongside the Renaissance amplifiers, the final production of which occurred in 2007 or 2008.

We build what people tell us to, or, to put it more aptly, we cease to build what people tell us not to. Customers voted with their checkbooks overwhelmingly for the new amplifiers.

The superior tendencies of the new circuit are attested by many long term VAC owners who have auditioned Phi 200's and Phi 300's, subsequently purchasing them to replace much loved Renaissance amplifiers. This is significant, as Renaissance owners tend to be fiercely loyal (witness some comments in this thread), and they are surprised to find a KT88 amplifier doing a better job of reproducing music. Frankly, so was I when it happened in our R&D efforts, but that is the way it is.

5) If the customer being discussed in this thread makes the comparison (and tweaks his system to the new amp, i.e., away from compensating for the shortcomings of the Renaissance amplifier), he is very likely to choose the new VAC Phi amplifier.

6) If someone prefers the sound of a Renaissance amplifier, fine; every system is different, and one should use what one enjoys! There is no one perfect tool for every job. However, in our experience choosing the Renaissance would be the exception rather than the rule.

7) The VAC Renaissance amplifiers were introduced to the public in the summer of 1993. I designed these amplifiers, with an able assist by our technician of the time, Scott Seehauer, and mechanical engineering by my father, Chan Hayes.

We hired Kevin Carter four years *after* the Renaissance amplifiers went into production, initially for marketing and later for production management. He was then an interested DIY audio hobbyist employed in an unrelated field. He was with the company for approximately four years, until our return to our home base in Sarasota, Florida in September 2001. He is a capable fellow, and did make a significant contribution to the initial Mk II update of the line stage section of the Renaissance Signature Preamplifier; however, a phase problem occurring under certain conditions was discovered in late 2001, and so the circuit was reengineered in Sarasota during its first year of production. No model we produce was designed by him.

To be clear and fair, many people, both within VAC and without, have made suggestions and contributed ideas over the years, some of which have found places in our designs. Like most successful companies, VAC is interested in new developments in circuits, parts, and techniques. This is an essential factor in progress. We routinely engage in R&D projects using parts and techniques not found in our current products, thus challenging our own theories about what will or will not sound good. On several occasions this has lead to unexpected breakthroughs in sound quality.

There are few VAC products for which I would claim sole credit. I function as the chief engineer, and in all cases I am the final arbiter of design and sound. But it is the nature of a passion-driven specialty company that many of our staff are quite knowledgeable, and ideas or challenges are discussed freely. I gratefully acknowledge the good people on our team and their important contributions.

8) On only two occasions in VAC’s history was an outside engineer ever involved in analogue audio circuit development. One project was a non-complementary solid state amplifier idea, and the other a brief evaluation of the merits of the 811A transmitting triode, both more than ten years ago. Outside of the audio path, a consultant was used circa 1998 on a remote control design that was not successful, an outside software engineer wrote the assembly code to our specifications for the remote control logic processor used in the early Phi preamplifier, and an industrial design firm helped craft the chassis for the old Visionary system.

With one exception, no VAC model has ever been produced that used an analogue design that was not conceived or developed in house. The exception is the Marantz Classic Series. VAC was selected by Marantz in 1995 to do the audio archeology to recreate the Model 7, Model 8B, and Model 9, and then to manufacture many thousands of units for them from 1995 through 1998. In addition, I am the principal designer of the Marantz Model 66 integrated amplifier, which we also manufactured for them. In fact, VAC has been the engineering consultant to several home and pro audio companies over the last 21 years.

9) The Audio Doctor is not a VAC dealer. Its principal was once a salesman at a VAC dealer, but was disassociated from them long before the current Phi 200, Phi 300, or Statement amplifiers were introduced.

I trust that this information will be of help to the community. And whether it be with an old Renaissance or a new Phi or Statement amplifier, we're happy to have many of you in the VAC family!

Kevin Hayes, Founder & President
VAC/Valve Amplification Company