The Flaming Lips are Go Manifesto

Zaikesman...I appreciate your maturity level in posting a thread and letting others respond honestly...in this case disagreeing at times...without having to resort to childish bantering and rebuttles...this is afterall a forum...lets not take things too seriously...although with music...at times...this can be inevitable...in regards to Ben and the Lips...Ben likes what he likes...everyone to an extent is that way...myself included...as I get older...my record collection grows smaller...I have less time and energy to "find" new music...and more often than not...find little new music that stimulates me...predictable as it may be...I prefer something that has stood the test of time...be it the Stones,Kinks,Hendrix,etc...Im afraid Im turning into the classic rock "meathead" everyone makes fun of!...at any rate...going from singer songwriter types such as the Boss to even early Lips is probably a bit of a stretch...the early recordings are raw and kind of sloppy in the classic garage way...but their humour,creativity,and energy set them apart from the pack in this regard...just for the record...not a huge Boss fan...but "Nebraska" has to be one of the darkest, hearfelt, dissections of the small midwestern town gone bad...a very underated and uncommercial Boss record...and a very good one..happy

Hey guys, great posts! (and yes...big bonus points for no bitch fights)

I think I fall somewhere in the middle on the Lips. I've never really thought they were as good as their press, but I've always enjoyed them to some extent. I can listen to them objectively and agree with much of Zaikesman's praise, but at the same time they often fail to connect with me emotionally. There are definitely FL's songs that do, and I like them very much, but others blur together and lack the distinctiveness that made a group like The Beatles extra special (at least to me...they're my benchmark of quality). I do agree that they have the drive and creative restlessness that great bands share, and I really respect them artistically. Musically, I kinda tend to lump them together with Radiohead (and others) and label them as "Pink Floyd" for the new millenium. I do enjoy both groups, but not as much as an other artists that connect with me emotionally. Of course, that connection is completely subjective and individual. I know Zaikesman must have made that connection, or he couldn't feel the way he feels about them. I know many others that have made that same connection with the Lip's music. I understand it completely, but I don't happen to share those same feelings quite as often.

As far as the new Wilco goes, I think Zaikesman should check it out. I know where you're coming from as far as the No Depression backlash is concerned. It's not completely unjustified, but I do think you're missing some amazing music that has been labeled (correctly, or not) "No Depression" . Wilco is another band that has yet to live up to it's unbelievable press, but I think "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" brings them one step closer. Like someone mentioned earlier, everything new is derivative to some extent. YHF is no exception, but I do think it may be Wilco's most original album to date. It seems like Jim O'Rourke was able to help them make the album they tried to make on their own with Summerteeth. I actually think YHF might have more in common with a Flaming Lips album than it does most No Depression albums. It's an atmospheric, laid-back, headphone listen...not country rock.

And Zaikesman...it's about time someone mentioned the Young Fresh Fellows on this forum! Not very hi-fi, but one of my all time faves. As a matter of fact, I honestly believe that Scott McCaughey's (of the YFF) Minus 5 album, "Old Liquidator" is somewhat responsible for Wilco's non-"New Depression" direction that began on "Being There". "Being There " was recorded soon after Old Liquidator was released (and after Jeff Tweedy played bass with Scott and the Minus 5 at a show in Chicago). The YFF and Scott McCaughey are also Jeff Tweedy's wife's favorites, which also plays into my crackpot theory. :-)

And Springsteen! Yes Zaikesman...I understand where you're coming from and I agree (I read "Mansion On The Hill"). I wrote Springsteen off ten years ago, but his new album makes me think I wrote him off too early. I haven't heard it more than a few times, but it's sincere in a way that he hasn't been since "Tunnel Of Love" (his divorce album), and I don't *think* Jon Landau was involved. Both are good things in my book. I've always felt that his Woody Guthrie-like image was fairly calculated, but I can't deny the fact that he wrote some amazing songs. I happen to be one of the few who thinks none of those songs were on "Born To Run" or "Born In The USA", but that's just me...I prefer his first two albums. "The Rising" doesn't sound like his earliest work, but it does seem to avoid some of the grandstanding that bothered me since the late 70s. I look forward to listening to it more, and I never thought I'd say that about a Springsteen album again.

Phil

Thanks for the Wilco imput Phil (the rest too :-). I'll have to make an effort to give them a listen (unfortunately for me, my ability to preliminarily audition stuff online is about nil, due to my relatively ancient computer, which just can't deal well with a streaming feed). My aversion to the "Alt-Country" tag doesn't have so much to do with not being a huge country fan (I'm not in the sense of knowing a lot about it or owning much of it, but I can greatly enjoy vintage country from the 50's and 60's [such as DC's WAMU carries on Saturday afternoons with the Eddie Stubbs show broadcast from Nashville - don't know if this is syndicated], and also like acoustic bluegrass), or even not caring for the original wave of country-rock (I'm a big fan of stuff such as Gene Clark's collaborations with Doug Dillard, The Band, Neil Young, Dylan, The Stones' country flirtations, and even some Flying Burrito Brothers and (gasp) Dead, but am not as attracted to later Byrds, Gram Parsons solo, or the artists that followed them with greater commercial success such as The Eagles, Poco, or Emmylou Harris), but rather what I perceive as the mannered and stilted approach characteristic of just about all self-conscious attempts at 'revival' or 'genre' music, combined with a tendency in this case toward the boring, songwriting-wise. I also found "No Depression" to be kind of presumptuous in a way that reminds me of the hype surrounding "The Year That Punk Broke", since both those phenomena were essentially media and commercial trend-hopping of movements that had really begun at least a decade before they were promoted as the latest thing. But as you say, the newer Wilco work may not be explicitly derived from this school.

I fully sympathize with The Beatles being your "benchmark of quality". I've been afflicted with the same expectation level ever since they became my favorite band when I was given the "Rubber Soul" album at age six, and this can make it hard for a rock fan to ever really give full marks to any other group or artist pursuing an original, non-genre, songwriting-oriented and impressionistic-in-execution approach to the music (artists not attempting to do anything other than entertain are, perhaps unfairly, given somewhat of a pass in this regard, but neither are they loved as much as The Beatles, while practicioners of traditional forms are exempt from having to compete). Part of the way I've reconciled this is to accept the realization that both the state of the art form, and the state of our society today generally, will never again allow for such a level of greatness to be achieved as The Beatles represent no matter what level of genius is brought to bear. Next taking into account the fact that almost universally, you are not actually going to find an equivalent level of genius anyway, I look to the hope of finding a different kind of genius, which is thankfully infinite in possibility. But the one thing that I really really look for, and get very high about when I think I may have found it, is an artist who, despite their limitations of ability or contextual serendipity (which may be severe compared to The Beatles), tries their very hardest, and brings all of their individual genius to bear, on attempting to achieve their own personal version of what The Beatles pointed the way toward in terms of what is ventured and gained artistically. Most artists lack both the genius and the effort required, and the rest generally lack one or the other. But when you can find an artist of considerable unique genius, who undertakes the difficult attempt to go beyond their own preconceptions of their art and reach for a new synthesis which might recall the creative spirit of The Beatles in their own small way, then you may have found an artist who successfully expresses what I have always identified as the key quality inherent in any work that can begin to satisfy in a way that even remotely recalls The Beatles: Generosity. It is the sharing of that personal artistic exploration in a way that tries to reach out to the audience unselfishly and give something that no one else could create, which is special. Most artists either don't possess something which goes beyond in order to give, or they end up taking from their audience rather than giving to it by not pushing themselves into so vulnerable and unknown an area of personal expression, instead working in a safe place where they are sure not to fail. If you can find that spirit of unguarded artistic generosity, even if the genius attempting to give it represents merely one which is different from what has come before, rather than one which is (impossibly) equal to what has come before, then you have found something which is worthy of the continuation of the art form's heritage of new creation.

I believe when you hear that spirit of generosity in an artist's work, you receive a spark of recognition that tells you: pay attention, this is different, this is real. Worlds can only open up for the listener if the artist is willing to go naked before them and share their unique creation despite the risk. I value receiving this spark into my heart even if the artistic genius in question is only a minor genius, relatively speaking. I can hear it and appreciate it in the case of Joey Ramone just as much as I can with John Lennon, just as much in the case of Gene Vincent as with Bob Dylan. Without all the reaching of all the minor geniuses, when it comes to rock, you might as well just listen to The Beatles and nothing else, but that would be a much less interesting and stimulating life. Which is, sadly, just about the state of the music as I hear it today. Most artists nowadays possess little to no creative genius, and are content to merely exploit their audience, essentially holding it in contempt. This might be okay for the industry (although not in the long run, I think) and for fans who have little in the way of artistic sensitivity, but it gets really depressing after a while for people like you or me, who grew up on something better. Rock is a pop art form, and though I can always listen to older material again, or tell myself that I can enjoy music that remains in the underground even though most people have never heard of it, I guess there is still a strong psychological need to be a part of something new which is much larger than yourself, and which has been going unfulfilled for quite some time now. I mean, I can barely recall the last time that I was totally into something that made much of a dent on the popular consciousness. There used to be a viable substitute for this in the underground rock community that existed when I was younger, but that was blown up and fragmented by the time of the Lollapalooza generation, and totally subsumed as everything became the oxymoronic "alternative". Of course, there will never again exist a day when the most popular artist in the world is also the best, as in the case of The Beatles. And in this post-regional, internet and video age, I don't even think there are going to be any more vital underground scenes in the way there were in the 70's and 80's. But I suppose that it is still just a simple hope of mine that someday, there will again be an artist who simultaneously sparks that recognition of artistic generosity within me, and also has it embraced by the larger world around me. Are The Flaming Lips it? If I'm being realisitc I think "No way it could happen, they're too weird, they're not what people want", but then there are times when I think that just maybe, enough other people might recognize in them the same thing that I do.

In most regards...after the Stones and Beatles...everyone else is trying not to embarrass themselves...however..some artists are better at this than the others...if you are fortunate enough to have a good, full range system...Photek,Massive Attack,Grooverider,and the Chemical Bros. are great for "futuristic" music with imaging and bass galore...not for every moment...but a nice change of pace...

I started getting into these guys right when their 2nd LP, 'Hear It Is' came out around 1986 or so. Some intangible & subtle-yet-pervasive quality of their music really struck a chord with me that lingers to this day. The records were good fun, but seeing them live was a WHOLE 'nother thing to reckon with! I saw them perform live as the original three-piece power trio many times (anytime they were in Michigan)and will stand by my assessment of these shows as some of THE most powerful and genuine rock & roll experiences I have had the priviledge of experiencing. They did things with sound and evoked strange, mysterious energies that really transcended what three dudes bashing on stringed instruments and drums should be able to manage. One of the few bands that had the ability to, when they were really 'on', shake my jaded sensibilities and cause me to stand aghast wondering just what the &*#% was really going on up on that stage. Their shows at The Foolery in Mt. Pleasant are the stuff of legends and they once played a basement in E. Lansing that was booking shows under the guise of a club called 'Ed's Lounge' simply because there were no venues in town to bring such acts to. The basement was filled to the brim with their visual onslaught of smoke, strobes and colored lights while the dancing shadows and primal fuzztone grind turned that humble little space into some other alternate reality. Anyone who was there will, to this day, recognize themselves as a witness to one of the cornerstones of East Lansing mythology. It has been fascinating to watch them evolve over the years, and though I was not totally enamoured of the 'Soft Bulletin' and it's accompanying live show (perhaps cuz I simply yearn for the good ol' days), I do respect the fact that they continue to reach out into other sonic regions. (I did catch their gig with Beck BTW and it was most excellent..they made a rather fine backing ensemble for that tour). That aside, I do love a good deal of the rather brilliant recordings from their more recent pop phases; 'Transmission Heart' and 'Clouds Taste Metallic' could even be considered the Sgt. Pepper of this era. The four piece band / dual guitar line-up that aligned itself with these records continued right where the original three-piece left off with consistently mind-blowing displays of sonic prowess at their live shows. These are, of course, times now long-gone and I'll just have to tip my hat and thank 'em for giving me some sounds to hold onto as very, very fond memories. A truly special band...those who were there will know what I mean.