Hi-Fi Fuses - SNAKE OIL? - or something in it?


There's a lot of chatter about the benefits of those high prices gold plated fuses with silver conductor etc. etc. all over the web and the consensus ranges from FANTASTIC!!! to much more subtle observations.

It makes sense to me, epseically in light of spending lots of $$$ on good power cables, that having a skinny piece of aluminum conductor in a glass tube (i.e. a cheap fuse), in the power loop would be detrimental to the performance of the components.

I decided to revamp my DIY power supply I'd built for the Cambridge Audio 640p phono stage and DACmagic in order to test this out - and since it's a DIY project there is no UL Certification to void.

First, I bypassed the fuse link completely to confirm there would be an improvement and give me the best benchmark to compare against - YEP - BIG DIFFERENCE - much more this, that and the other :-)

So then I started looking for hi-fi fuses - WOW!!! - talk about pricey.

Two fuses for the power supply was going to cost $120+ AND I thought I'd probably have to buy a better quality fuse block to make the most of those fuses.

Then a moment of enlightenment - most power supplies and conditioners are protected by pushbutton breakers and not fuses.

I found breakers of the required current rating and installed them into the power supply. I imediately noticed that there was no deteriation in fidelity when compared to the same unit with the fuse link bypassed - GREAT!.

On reflection, the fuses I had in place were rated at 3 amps - so they use a pretty thin fuse wire in them. If I had used a fuse of a higher rating, i.e. it uses a thicker conductor, then I believe that there would be less of a difference between the fused and bypassed implementations

SO - do the expensive fuses work?

Well the empirical evidence out there would suggest they do
- I do know the cheap fuses are not good!

I know bypassing them does improve the sound - a lot in my case
- BUT THAT'S NOT SAFE FOR ONGOING USE

I know breakers work as good as bypassing the fuse
- BUT MESSING WITH A POWER SUPPLY VOIDS UL CERTIFICATION - NOT GOOD!
- FYI a couple of licensed technicians I know WILL NOT change the design of a power supply at all.

I believe the amount of benefit is related to the fuse rating
- but don't go replacing 3 amp fuses with a 20 amp fuse - that's not safe either.

Whilst looking for fuses I discovered AMR Gold fuses priced at $20/fuse.

Now that's definately more affordable than most others at 3-4 times their price.

One supplier I know of in the US is Avatar Aacoustics

If you have had experience with quality fuses please share - especially if they are "modestly priced" i.e. $20-$30 per fuse. And please provide a source :-)

Also, can anypne confirm that Slow blow fuses are better than regular?

And Remember - IF YOU AIN'T LICENCED - GET A TECHNICIAN!

Many Thanks
williewonka
Some folks on other forums are way behind the curve.
In fact most do not own anything remotely close to a decent hifi.
Most on that forum were glorified dumpster divers,and it was/is still a place where anything found under 100bucks is glorified and anything over that is vilified.

So, to purchase a fuse for more than $1.50,and then say it sounded better just ticked off a lot of the folks with limited exposure to decent gear.

Really it was like going back in time, when folks balked at spending good money on fancy speaker wires, when zip cord is all you need.
Sounds quaint doesn't it?
Saddly, for many of those folks, zip cord still rules the roost.

But enough of that nonsense.

It's a mind set.
Some folks refuse to believe any thing they hear about, refuse to believe what others have said and are just "too smart" and know better than to try any of this voodoo stuff or as they called it up there-fairy dust.

I was the great fairy dust man.

I trumpeted the virtues of de-magging cd's, dvd's and lp's.

I could hear the benefits, and all who I've demonstrated it too also have heard improvements.

I was told point blank that it just can't work.

I invited the sceptical to come and listen,but no takers.

I offered to give away some Iso Clean fuses or take up a collection amongst members and ship them out.

No deal.

No one wanted anything to do with this "snake oil".

I liked what Shunyata power cords and conditioners did.
I was called a shill for shunyata, a fan boy.

I was told I had more money than brains to spend close to 10, 000 dollars on power cords for my system.My intellignece was questionable.
They said I surely must listen to the same 10 lp's over and over,because I most likely had spent all my money on gear and not music.
That coming from chaps who didn't have $1000.00 invested in a system.

So I was called an elitist snob,and when I would defend myself,I ruffled a few too many feathers,bruised a few gentle egos and was told if I didn't follow the rules(one sided) that I would be asked to leave.I was more than ready to go.
I asked that my last parting shots be printed,but censorship prevailed.

I am not bitter,I've been vindicated by a few who have in the last couple of years, discovered some of the things I talked about.
Some of that fairy dust that I sprinkled took root,so all was not in vain.

I always contended that everyone has a right to an opinion and should be able to defend it,yet most debates were shut down when the good ol boys were gettin a woopin and made to look like they just weren't up to the task.

Thankfully this is still the land of the free.
Censorship and political correctness have not tipped the scales that far to the right.
"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend it to the end"-wise words from a wise man,sadly not the vision of all men.

The whole business of denial and scepticism about anything in audio that has been said to make improvements runs rampant in all forums.

There's always the camps,those who can hear, those who can't or don't want to and those who will never bother to try any of this stuff because they just know it can't work, so why bother spending any money and wasting time?

Time and money should be spent listening to music, not the gear is their mantra.
Shun anything made by the evil empire of the High End.

Yes, how many times is that thrust at us?

But, it's MY money, My time, and My system, so I'll do what I want.
At least for as long as I still have the right to do so.

If this is all snake oil stuff to those who haven't tried any of it then I have a suggestion.

Spend 20 bucks on a fuse and give one a try.

It will either be an improvement or it won't.
You shouldn't feel ripped off, it's only 20 bucks, think of the poor sucker who spent 2000 bucks for a power cord
and consider yourself lucky and be forever convinced that everything in this hobby that costs more than a buck is snake oil.

I wouldn't have an isuue with that at all.
It's your experience, which is in a completely different environment than mine.

Where I draw the line is when someone who has no experience with the snake oil tells me it's just fairy dust.
When someone asks for scientific proof that something works but is reluctant to do the experiement and draw conclusions for themselves I have to ask"where's the science in that?"

My sound wouldn't be as pleasing to my ears and garner the favour of my friends if all the snake oil and fairy dust were absent.

But I can't provide any science to back that up.
I think everyone has their own unique findings and perspectives that most others may or will not grasp, beyond the common learnings/understanding . Nothing new there. Not worth getting too upset about. If something works for someone, that's all that really matters. Truths and non truths will tend to come out for the general public over time, but it often takes awhile.
04-12-13: Lacee
It's a mind set.

That pretty much sums up this hobby. If you don't believe that you will hear a difference, you will not. If you do believe that you will hear a difference, you will.
What really matters is what's between the ears.
"That pretty much sums up this hobby. If you don't believe that you will hear a difference, you will not. If you do believe that you will hear a difference, you will. "

...and back to the topic of the thread, a lot of product marketing that might resemble "snake oil" banks on it.

Buyer, beware!
Lacee - fortunately you now post on a forum where sniping at a person's post is "minimal" - but there is always someone that has a "Humble Opinion" to express :-)

To question someones findings to me seems moot - after all, it's - your system - your room. Unless that is duplicated down to the fabrics on the sofa and pictures on the wall there is no way they can doubt the effect of your particular tweak or upgrade.

The other factor many seem to forget is - it's also your ears!

e.g.
I have omni-directional ears - put me in a room full of people and I have a hard time following a conversation 3ft away, but I can hear a cellphone vibrating on the hallway table when I'm upstairs.

My wife on the other hand has uni-directional hearing and can follow a conversation in a crowded restaurant three tables away - and can tune into any conversation within that radius - as long as her head is pointed in that direction - but she can't hear her cell phone vibrate 3 ft away if it's behind her.

This has a direct impact on how a person is able to perceive sound and detect subtle changes in that sound.

I also find that trying to prove something is often pointless. Mainly because if a person chooses not to believe your findings, trying to convince them otherwise may require lots of my time - and I have music to listen to :-)

Therefore, I simply post my findings and let them do the legwork if they choose - or not. That way I stay sane.

There are many "claims" on Agon that I personally believe may be snake oil, because they make no sense to me, i.e. they are not attributable to physics as I understand it, but I have no doubt the poster of those tidbits truly did witness some effect.

So, keep posting your findings for those that are open minded and ignore the rest.

Discoveries are sometimes ahead of their time - after all, at one time the sun went around the earth and the earth was flat!

:-)