Geof, Did you know that the thickness of your skull has an impact on how you perceive sound ? I don't mean this as a joke,its true. You should have more faith in electrical science , it has brought what might be considered miracles into our lives. But you know being human and a little bit different from each other , when it comes to the things that effect our senses such as musical reproduction , we should allow the choice of a device that sounds the best to us. Look at all the pre-amps,amps,digital gear,etc. we have to choose from . These devices are "Tuned" by there perspective designer based on his idea of what music should sound like. Case in point, the biasing of an amplifier. But getting back to science for a second..............physics does dictate certain truths......these truths have everything to do with the functional ability of a given devise to do what it is supposed to do. That is to say a well produced square wave thru a circuit once achieved is the best electrical possibility. Perhaps if we took a good decongestant an hour before our listening session, there would seem to be more clarity in the high end area ?
Hi-Fi Fuses - SNAKE OIL? - or something in it?
There's a lot of chatter about the benefits of those high prices gold plated fuses with silver conductor etc. etc. all over the web and the consensus ranges from FANTASTIC!!! to much more subtle observations.
It makes sense to me, epseically in light of spending lots of $$$ on good power cables, that having a skinny piece of aluminum conductor in a glass tube (i.e. a cheap fuse), in the power loop would be detrimental to the performance of the components.
I decided to revamp my DIY power supply I'd built for the Cambridge Audio 640p phono stage and DACmagic in order to test this out - and since it's a DIY project there is no UL Certification to void.
First, I bypassed the fuse link completely to confirm there would be an improvement and give me the best benchmark to compare against - YEP - BIG DIFFERENCE - much more this, that and the other :-)
So then I started looking for hi-fi fuses - WOW!!! - talk about pricey.
Two fuses for the power supply was going to cost $120+ AND I thought I'd probably have to buy a better quality fuse block to make the most of those fuses.
Then a moment of enlightenment - most power supplies and conditioners are protected by pushbutton breakers and not fuses.
I found breakers of the required current rating and installed them into the power supply. I imediately noticed that there was no deteriation in fidelity when compared to the same unit with the fuse link bypassed - GREAT!.
On reflection, the fuses I had in place were rated at 3 amps - so they use a pretty thin fuse wire in them. If I had used a fuse of a higher rating, i.e. it uses a thicker conductor, then I believe that there would be less of a difference between the fused and bypassed implementations
SO - do the expensive fuses work?
Well the empirical evidence out there would suggest they do
- I do know the cheap fuses are not good!
I know bypassing them does improve the sound - a lot in my case
- BUT THAT'S NOT SAFE FOR ONGOING USE
I know breakers work as good as bypassing the fuse
- BUT MESSING WITH A POWER SUPPLY VOIDS UL CERTIFICATION - NOT GOOD!
- FYI a couple of licensed technicians I know WILL NOT change the design of a power supply at all.
I believe the amount of benefit is related to the fuse rating
- but don't go replacing 3 amp fuses with a 20 amp fuse - that's not safe either.
Whilst looking for fuses I discovered AMR Gold fuses priced at $20/fuse.
Now that's definately more affordable than most others at 3-4 times their price.
One supplier I know of in the US is Avatar Aacoustics
If you have had experience with quality fuses please share - especially if they are "modestly priced" i.e. $20-$30 per fuse. And please provide a source :-)
Also, can anypne confirm that Slow blow fuses are better than regular?
And Remember - IF YOU AIN'T LICENCED - GET A TECHNICIAN!
Many Thanks
It makes sense to me, epseically in light of spending lots of $$$ on good power cables, that having a skinny piece of aluminum conductor in a glass tube (i.e. a cheap fuse), in the power loop would be detrimental to the performance of the components.
I decided to revamp my DIY power supply I'd built for the Cambridge Audio 640p phono stage and DACmagic in order to test this out - and since it's a DIY project there is no UL Certification to void.
First, I bypassed the fuse link completely to confirm there would be an improvement and give me the best benchmark to compare against - YEP - BIG DIFFERENCE - much more this, that and the other :-)
So then I started looking for hi-fi fuses - WOW!!! - talk about pricey.
Two fuses for the power supply was going to cost $120+ AND I thought I'd probably have to buy a better quality fuse block to make the most of those fuses.
Then a moment of enlightenment - most power supplies and conditioners are protected by pushbutton breakers and not fuses.
I found breakers of the required current rating and installed them into the power supply. I imediately noticed that there was no deteriation in fidelity when compared to the same unit with the fuse link bypassed - GREAT!.
On reflection, the fuses I had in place were rated at 3 amps - so they use a pretty thin fuse wire in them. If I had used a fuse of a higher rating, i.e. it uses a thicker conductor, then I believe that there would be less of a difference between the fused and bypassed implementations
SO - do the expensive fuses work?
Well the empirical evidence out there would suggest they do
- I do know the cheap fuses are not good!
I know bypassing them does improve the sound - a lot in my case
- BUT THAT'S NOT SAFE FOR ONGOING USE
I know breakers work as good as bypassing the fuse
- BUT MESSING WITH A POWER SUPPLY VOIDS UL CERTIFICATION - NOT GOOD!
- FYI a couple of licensed technicians I know WILL NOT change the design of a power supply at all.
I believe the amount of benefit is related to the fuse rating
- but don't go replacing 3 amp fuses with a 20 amp fuse - that's not safe either.
Whilst looking for fuses I discovered AMR Gold fuses priced at $20/fuse.
Now that's definately more affordable than most others at 3-4 times their price.
One supplier I know of in the US is Avatar Aacoustics
If you have had experience with quality fuses please share - especially if they are "modestly priced" i.e. $20-$30 per fuse. And please provide a source :-)
Also, can anypne confirm that Slow blow fuses are better than regular?
And Remember - IF YOU AIN'T LICENCED - GET A TECHNICIAN!
Many Thanks
- ...
- 220 posts total
Mitch2 wrote, "Maybe the "snake oil" isn't that designer fuses don't change (or even improve) the sound, but maybe it has to do with what some are charging for those fuses compared to the relative level of sonic improvement you get compared to using regular fuses." Most Aftermarket fuses are in the price range $24 to $60 with some around $100 or more. Kind of like electron tubes, one ought to weigh the cost vs performance, but how can you make a decision without listening first? That's the problem! Mitch2 also wrote, "How close to the sound of a designer fuse can you get by putting a little silver contact paste (Quick Silver Gold) on the ends of a Buss fuse and wrapping it a couple of times with teflon tape for damping?" Good questions. But one must also ask, "how much better sound can you get by using Quicksilver Gold on the ends of a designer fuse?" And let's not overlook directionality, you can get some improvement in a stock fuse by just determining the correct direction. So, correct direction + damping the fuse + better conductivity with QSG. Seems like a good idea to me. Mithc2 also wrote, "How close does the Acme cryogenically treated Silver Fuse at $12 - $16 come to the pricier models from other companies selling for $50 to $100+?" Difficult to say. There are a number of reasons why comparisons are difficult including time required for break in and the number of candidates for the evaluation. Are you volunteering? There is also the fuse holder to contend with, a silver plated cryo version appears to be a good place to start. |
"but how can you make a decision without listening first? That's the problem! " Reminds me of a famous LEgend. |
"but how can you make a decision without listening first? That's the problem! " Reminds me of a certain LEgend. No snake oil in that one! :^) |
The story of the Pied Piper,who is the High End esoteric charlatans of today I presume? Here's how I could spin that tale. You take someone who has demonstrated that they have a sound scientific background and lead all the gullible audio children down the garden path marching to his tune and not their own. Follow me,trust me, I know all the answers. Esoteric fuses, power cords,if they all measure the same they should all sound the same. Don't be afool follow me. But if it's all about measurements then everything that passes a square wave should sound the same, and so there is no reason for buying an esoteric anything? Is that not reverse snake oil descrimination? Are Dueland caps worth their price if they pass a square wave the same as an offshore cheapie? Surely they must be the kings of snake oil. Perhaps it's the LEgend of Pandora's box that we should refer to. You know, you start with an Esoteric fuse and then before you know it you're hooked on Duelands with gold and silver internal wiring. I wonder a lot. Like why do some folks in this hobby even bother to listen to their systems if they can't trust their ears? Do they take out a cd,then check the spec sheets,and knowing that everything is as it should be, put the cd back in it's case and call it a nite? Can they actually bypass their ears altogether like the chap who can read the record grooves and tell you what the music is? THis is audio is it not? So ,how can you make a decision without listening first? How can a square wave do anything more than show you that the item is functioning correctly? All functioning fuses would pass a square wave. All functiong capas would pass a square wave,the Dueland included. Would you be able to see any difference between a Dueland and a cheap Nichicon? Again, forgive me if my ignorance is showing,I am a subjectivist,and empiricist. I have to base my conclusions on what I can hear using my ears and by comparing one against the other in purely subjective terms. If my ears are fooling me, then I can accept that,because I am fooling myself everytime I sit down to listen to reproduced music. I know it's not perfect,I've heard real,this is not it. Yet the measurements are very likely perfect. The Pied Pipers who would lead you to believe that perfect measurements are all that matters, like perfect sound forever, are fooling themselves that what they have is perfection because it measures so. No need to listen first, the decision has already been made. |
- 220 posts total