How do you judge your system's neutrality?

Learsfool wrote:

This has been discussed in a different thread before, the idea that many audiophiles assume that some "colorations" they are hearing are caused by their system, when in fact they are on the recording itself. I have seen more than one situation where two people could not agree on which was the case ("Well in MY system, it doesn't sound like that!" etc). This is yet another reason why I don't think there could ever be much agreement on any two people's sense of "neutrality."

Like many people, I have had this experience both with audio and video. While in video, a proper calibration usually clears up the ambiguity between software colorations and hardware colorations, I agree that, in audio, it's not so simple. But again, I'm more optimistic about the possibility of some agreement some of the time. It's also worth pointing out that my proposed operationalization of neutrality does not require us to be able to differentiate software from hardware colorations as such. It only requires us to make judgments about how much differentiation a system is capable of.

In the case you mention, where variations in the sound of the same software on two different systems leads to ambiguity about software vs. hardware colorations, my method of determining neutrality offers a potential solution to the deadlock. By determining which system has greater differentiation, particularly in the domain where the ambiguous coloration occurs (e.g., instrument timbre), you can conclude which system is the more neutral of the two. If the coloration in question does not occur, or occurs less, on the more neutral system, then it is likely to be a playback coloration added or aggravated by the less neutral system. This method is, of course, fallible. But I believe it is useful for providing clues to distinguishing software colorations from hardware colorations. And if you were willing to move equipment around, the same method could be employed for distinguishing equipment colorations from room colorations.

Cbw - Your suggestion about revising the definition of 'inaccuracy' is a good one. Will work on it.

Dgarretson - I have a question for you about Cbw's entropy theory and your first operationalization of neutrality, namely, the idea that increasing neutrality results in increasing source convergence. Would Cbw's explanation of coloration in terms of decreasing entropy explain the convergence you predicted? And since his explanation extends to the entire playback chain, should we predict that, as whole systems become more neutral, they will sound more and more similar to one another?

Dgarretson, thanks for the clarification. I actually didn't know about the Holt dictionary. The only place I had previously seen common audiophile terms defined was in Robert Harley's book. I'm sure there isn't much difference between those two, anyway. That Holt book would be fascinating reading. I find it amusing that he defines "neutral" as free from coloration, as you guys are, but then feels the need to define "uncolored" as free from AUDIBLE coloration. This is especially funny to me coming from the guy who defined "subjectivist" reviewing! Harley's book also speaks of the objectivist/subjectivist divide in the same sense as Holt does, by the way. It was my understanding, though, that Harry Pearson was the one who defined many of these terms originally, and he was certainly the one who defined the concept of "the absolute sound."

Getting back more on topic, I have one comment on your observation that "To distinguish problems in playback from problems in recording, the trained listener merely needs to listen to a wide variety of recordings on the same playback system." While I do agree with this as far as it goes, this is only part of it. I believe the trained listener must also do the opposite - listen to the same few recordings that one is very familiar with on a wide variety of playback systems. This is much more useful for evaluating the playback end of the equation, while the former helps distinguish problems in recording.

However, no matter how precisely we can define various different terms and types of colorations, etc., (and I am not saying this is not valuable) people will hear many of them differently, for many different reasons. Setting aside personal preferences/reference points, one audiophile may have a much better/more trained ear than another. One could also have a better but more untrained ear than the other, a case which can really confuse the issue for both. Another example I find is all too common in the audiophile world - someone who thinks they have a good and/or trained ear, and knows quite a bit about the science behind audio products, but unfortunately doesn't actually hear very well. I'm sure we can all think of a dealer where this is the case! Others mentioned the effects of aging/hearing loss - everyone's ear, no matter what level it is/was originally, can/does/will change, for better and/or for worse. Unfortunately, as an orchestral musician I am guaranteed to lose at least 20% of my hearing over the course of my career. What sounds better to you today may not tomorrow, and this will change your perception of many types of "colorations." I guess I've said all I really have to say on the subject, though I do find the discussion of terms interesting and will continue to follow the thread.

Speaking of ear training, I would urge all audiophiles to consider taking a formal aural skills course - these are often offered as adult extension courses at music programs in large universities. This sort of ear training is much more valuable for actually listening to your music (as opposed to your system), and always leads to much more enjoyment of your music, no matter what type you listen to. It will also have the benefit of greatly increasing your ability to listen for your system's characteristics, especially the more musically-related ones. And it is much cheaper than a new component for your system, too, LOL! It's all about the music in the end, or should be, anyway. I have greatly enjoyed the discussion - thanks for starting the thread, Bryon!

preference for a particular coloration(s))and the general tendendency for most"audiophiles" to disagree about anything negates many of the aforementioned arguments presented so far.

Learsfool – I appreciate your thanks and I’m grateful for your participation. Though our points of view never converged, I learned a lot from our debate along the way. Your final comments about training the ear, which I think of as training the brain, are well taken. Although we didn’t discuss it much in this thread, the ear/brain is probably the most important “component” in the system.

Cbw – I have given some thought to your suggestions for revising the working definition of ‘inaccuracy.’ Here is what I came up with:

INACCURACY: An alteration to information in a component or system that eliminates, conceals, or corrupts information about the music.

Defining 'inaccuracy' in this way raises the question: How does this new concept of 'inaccuracy' relate to the concepts of 'accuracy,' 'neutrality,' and ‘resolution’? I would like to offer a new proposal about the relations among these concepts. To begin with some definitions:

ACCURACY: 1. The relative amount of information about the music presented by a component or system, comparing output to input. 2. The degree of absence of inaccuracies.

INACCURACY: An alteration to information in a component or system that eliminates, conceals, or corrupts information about the music.

NEUTRALITY: The degree of absence of coloration within a component or system.

COLORATION: An inaccuracy audible as a non-random sonic signature.

RESOLUTION: The absolute limit of information about the music that a component or system can present.

These concepts form some of the basic units of a set of equations that express the relations among accuracy, neutrality, and resolution:

1. CA = (1/L+N+D)
2. CN = (1/DoC)
3. CR = CA + FR
4. SA = SoCA
5. SN = SoCN
6. SR = SA + FR

Where…

CA = Component Accuracy
CN = Component Neutrality
CR = Component Resolution
SA = System Accuracy
SN = System Neutrality
SR = System Resolution
FR = Format Resolution
L = Loss
N = Noise
D = Distortion
So = “Sum of”
Do = “Degree of”

Taking them one at a time…

1. CA = (1/L+N+D). A COMPONENT’S ACCURACY is determined by the amount of loss, noise, and distortion within the component. More specifically, a component's accuracy is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL to its loss, noise, and distortion. The other way of saying the same thing: A component's inaccuracy is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to its loss (the elimination of information), noise (the concealment of information), and distortion (the corruption of information).

2. CN = (1/DoC). A COMPONENT’S NEUTRALITY is determined by its degree of coloration. More specifically, a component's neutrality is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL to its degree of coloration. This equation was proposed by Cbw in an earlier post.

3. CR = CA + FR. A COMPONENT’S RESOLUTION is determined by the accuracy of the component and the format resolution of the source. Specifically, a component's resolution is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to its accuracy and the format resolution.

4. SA = SoCA. A SYSTEM’S ACCURACY is determined by the sum of its components’ accuracy. Specifically, they are DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL.

5. SN = SoCN. A SYSTEM’S NEUTRALITY is determined by the sum of its components’ neutrality. Specifically, they are DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL.

6. SR = SA + FR. A SYSTEM’S RESOLUTION is determined by the system's accuracy and the format resolution of the source. Specifically, a system's resolution is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to its accuracy and the format resolution.

I'm not really proposing a deep mathematical relationship among these concepts. The equations are more of a mathematical analogy for describing the logical and conceptual relations among these categories.