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How do you judge your system's neutrality?


Here’s an answer I’ve been kicking around: Your system is becoming more neutral whenever you change a system element (component, cable, room treatment, etc.) and you get the following results:

(1) Individual pieces of music sound more unique.
(2) Your music collection sounds more diverse.

This theory occurred to me one day when I changed amps and noticed that the timbres of instruments were suddenly more distinct from one another. With the old amp, all instruments seemed to have a common harmonic element (the signature of the amp?!). With the new amp, individual instrument timbres sounded more unique and the range of instrument timbres sounded more diverse. I went on to notice that whole songs (and even whole albums) sounded more unique, and that my music collection, taken as a whole, sounded more diverse.

That led me to the following idea: If, after changing a system element, (1) individual pieces of music sound more unique, and (2) your music collection sounds more diverse, then your system is contributing less of its own signature to the music. And less signature means more neutral.

Thoughts?

P.S. This is only a way of judging the relative neutrality of a system. Judging the absolute neutrality of a system is a philosophical question for another day.

P.P.S. I don’t believe a system’s signature can be reduced to zero. But it doesn’t follow from that that differences in neutrality do not exist.

P.P.P.S. I’m not suggesting that neutrality is the most important goal in building an audio system, but in my experience, the changes that have resulted in greater neutrality (using the standard above) have also been the changes that resulted in more musical enjoyment.
bryoncunningham
mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
there was an iteresting piece in stereophile edited by markus sauer which attempted to show that there was no evidence that sound quality had a high correlation to satisfaction when listening to music.

i agree, from an academic basisis, that analysis is a worthy pursuit. it sharpens the brain cells.

however, except for system malfunction, or disssatisfaction with what one is hearing, that it is a useful endeavor when listening to music.

there are many topics that i have introduced myself for purely philosophical purposes, rather than to enhance the enjoyment of music.

i enjoy a good debate and i think that this subject lends itself to practice one's debating skills.

the question of this thread may be rhetorical, after all, in that it has no definitive answer.
dgarretson
2,598 posts
 
Kijanki, Warmth that lacks correct pitch definition is yet one more example of an undesirable coloration-- often indicative of weaknesses in rectification, power supply, or coupling caps. IME it is one of the most difficult problems to eliminate in a tube component, but it is not inherent in tubes per se, and once resolved, warmth is preserved with improved "neutrality" as a sense of full & natural embodiment, but without overhang, mid-bass bulge, or congestion.

At the opposing extreme of coloration that some would describe as an overly analytical presentation, the Benchmark is an OK DAC that has been substantially improved by an active community of modifiers. Rather than use a budget DAC to illustrate the point about an opposing coloration in constrast to warmth, it might be more interesting to think about something like a Martin Logan full range electrostatic. In this case at least, we have an absolutely clear window into high resolution, with loss of embodiment and warmth as perhaps a necessary design compromise. But I would submit that within the limitations of what this speaker DOES it is operating in a neutral (i.e uncolored) manner. This assertion follows earlier distinctions made by Bryon concerning errors of commission compared to errors of omission.
kijanki's avatar
kijanki
4,428 posts
 
Dgarretson - You're obviously in a "warm" camp while I'm searching for neutral sound. It just happened that my new Hyperion HPS-938 speakers combine resolution and speed of electrostats with a definition and dynamics of dynamic/cone type of speakers. In addition to incredible low level resolution it has relaxed presentation and makes poorly (bright) recorded CDs to sound OK. I've never heard speakers like that in stores here but my experience is limited. It is not warmth of the sound but rather relaxed presentation (still very snappy and dynamic).
kijanki's avatar
kijanki
4,428 posts
 
Oops - did I say I want neutral sound? I guess we're all searching for natural/balanced sound but it's definition is very personal.
dgarretson
2,598 posts
 
Such descriptions of personal experiences regarding coloration and neutrality as related to specific components, may serve as helpful illustrations of abstractions explored elsewhere in the thread.

My personal preference (and also my perception of neutrality) is to have as much warmth & embodiment as can be obtained without compromising transparency, high resolution, and realistic pitch & timbre. I suppose this reveals a romantic bias. However merely reversing the same adjectives in order of importance would tend to indicate an analytic bias. Regardless of one's starting point on a scale of preference, neutrality tends to occur toward the middle. For me "better" is about finding that middle while doing a bit more of everything right at both extremes of the scale. When this occurs it becomes clear that this is not a zero-sum game.
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