Entry into tubes

Hello one and all, Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences. The exchange of information on this site accelerates the learning curve even though some b.s. get mixed in. As a neophyte, (I have had the Creek for about 2 years,) with a “budget” (?) system, I am having a lot of pleasure listening to my system mature with each change. Your suggestions are greatly appreciated. From this thread I have learned: 1. forget the maggies for now and gain a ton of choices in my price range, and 2. tube people are much cooler than ss people. :) May you always find solace in your music, Charlie Daniell Brunswick, GA

charlie (& Tm12), 1st of all, my comments regarding trying rogue stuff are directed at someone who specifically mentions that bass response is important, & that they want to use maggies, which are a hard load to drive, especially in the bass. the rogue will *not* do it, period. i have over 400 hours on my preamp now, w/~150 hours on the n.o.s. ge tubes, which bruce wenger (www.bws-tube.com) said need 10 hours at most, to break-in. while the bass response is now *ok*, w/my prior linn kairn preamp, it was absolutely *outstanding*. & i'm talking about acoustical upright bass, not electronic synth stuff. and, yes, this was w/my *junk* adcom gfa 555's, putting out 900wpc into the 95db/1watt/<1/3%thd larger vmps subs (-3db @ 17hz). there's no way *any* other amp would better the adcom's output here - jeez, we're only talking frequencies below 60hz! say what ya want about adcom stuff, *no* one has *ever* slammed the bass capabilities of the adcom gfa555's (except Tm12!). not even *one* hi-end dealer, even tho salivating at the prospect of a sale, has told me i would gain anything by upgrading my subwoofer amps. *every one* has said "don't bother". and, besides, since the acoustic bass only goes down to 44hz, the fact is, most of the bass output is being handled by my electrocompaniet aw100 amp, driving the woofers of my monitors. while the soundstaging dimensionality of my system is *definitely* nicer w/the rogue 99 in my system, compared w/my previous linn kairn, i had *real* low-bass & mid-bass w/the linn, & it's now gone. that's why the rogue is for sale - i want it *all*. the rogue products (like adcom) are nice-sounding entry-level hi-end stuff, but if ya want *more*, ya gotta spend more. if bass is important to you (as it is to me), the rogue won't cut it. several critical listeners have heard my current set-up, and the bass is fine for *them*. two of 'em specifically understood what i was referring to when i complained i miss the bass - they heard the difference compared to how it was previously - but, they dint care, cuz they liked everything else! Tm12, i am not saying your rogue stuff doesn't put out satisfactory bass for you in your system. it's obvious that there are one of two things going on here - either you've never heard what *real* bass sounds like on a home-stereo, or it's not a priority for you (like it wasn't, for my friends). i had *real-live* string-bass-players in my living-room before, and i won't be satisfied w/a preamp until they return! ;~) doug

Sedond,I think your after something everyone wants but is almost impossible to achive.That is Audio Nirvana.Everything is a compromize.Does the 99 have a Phono stage. Good luck in your quest. I have heard what real bass sound like many times.what i have found is the Rogue gives you what the artist put on the recording.I have had people comment that the bass is lacking.I then put on a different recording where the artist wants you to hear the bass and the commnets are wow.Listen to how good the bass sound.Its all a matter of how you like the sound. If you do find the right combo let us all know.

Danvetc, I'll give you my experience with tubes and the other guys can just skip this post, cuz they've probably read it before. If youre just entering tubes, I would grab an old Dynaco St-70 on the web for about $350 bucks. Then go to www.tubestore.com and get a matched quad of Svetlanas for 60 bucks. I tell ya, I have a Dynaco with Svetlanas and a 200 wpc class A solid state (perreaux). My Dyna blew a capacitor awhile back and I was just using the Perreaux. I recently got it fixed and hooked it up. No matter what anyone says the ST-70 has some of the best midrange anywhere for any price (at least the one I've got does). With the Svetlanas it has as good of a bass response as my Solid State. I've heard tube integrated amps from Jolida and they just didn't sound very good. Personally, I'd skip integrated amps altogther--- If your gonna go tube go all the way. Play around with one of these old Dynas...you can't go wrong and if you don't like it there are always people lined up to take them off your hands. Heck you might even make money. Yes, you can get better than the ST-70...but you'll pay about two grand to do it. Good luck.

Tm12, the *quantity* of the bass is ok - not as good as i've heard, but it's ok. it would be acceptable, but the *texture* is also lacking - not as tonal, more like hi-fi than the real thing. two albums come to mind where this is really noticeable to me - both by patricia barbour: modern cool & cafe blue. it's also noticeable on a bluegrass cd called skip, hop, wobble, w/jerry douglas, russ barenberg, & edgar meyer. you're rite - i may never get to *audio nirvana*, but i'm gonna get closer in the bass! ;~) & you're also rite - could be an impedance mismatch. a well-respected engineer sez i should be getting a 3db drop if i insert a 100 ohm across the leads from my preamp-to-x-over, if the rogue's impedence is as the factory claims. well, i get a 3db drop w/a 2.2k ohm resistor, 100 ohms give me more like a 20db drop! so, this may be part of the problem. i *am* gonna try another tubed preamp; i'll keep y'all posted.