Good used surround processors??


I just split up my system--taking the high-end two channel section and moving it to my new living room, and taking what's left (with which i used a tape looped fosgate pro logic processor) and re-assemblling a mid-fi home theater in my new family room. As two channel listening isn't critical (at all) to the theater system, I don't want to spend the farm on a processor, but I do want to make the jump to digital surround.

As I'm sure digital surround sound processors are changing (and hopefully improving) more than probably any other component, I need a 101 guide on the pre-requisites to look for in a used processor, and features that don't really matter. Also, if I am looking for, say, a two year old mid-fi surround processor, what are some worthy candidates? In other words, should I avoid the Rotel, and look for a B&K or Parasound processor? I throw these arbitrarily as examples, but hopefully you get the idea.

Thanks in advance.


Ho
bismarck1f4ad
Kitchener - you can definitely utilize amps that you already have. As the dealer told you, the pre/pro will allow you to calibrate the sound level by channel (you'll need an SPL meter), so power differences can be compensated for.

Dolby Digital and DTS are both multi-channel digital encoding techniques. DD is encapsulated in AC-3, which allows for many different encoding techniques. The two are used interchangably which, for most conversations, doesn't matter much, but isn't technically accurate. DTS is an alternative encoding which, therefore, requires a different decoder. It's higher-bandwidth and, therefore, assumed to be superior and may well be. There is no doubt that DD is universally accepted by DVD manufacturers. DTS soundtracks are often included now, but not on every DVD by a long shot. Most pre/pros include DTS decoding now, though it used to be a premium feature and if you buy a used one you may not get it. The most straight-forward approach would be just to be sure that the pre/pro you buy does DD 5.1 (again, there are new versions of DD that you can pursue, but at some expense), that the DVD player you get outputs a digital signal (so that the pre/pro is the box doing the decoding), and get a 5.1 channel setup going and sit back and enjoy. A few years from now, you may want to pursue one of the myriad of new multi-channel HT encoding schemes, but after some of the dust has settled. -Kirk

If you thnk the debates get heated around here, visit a few HT discussion boards and look for the DD vs DTS threads. With that much "passion" on both sides, there's probably very little inherent differences and they pale in comparison to the engineering of the soundtrack.

Kitchener, I have to disagree with Charles. You will balance the soundpressure level form each of the 5 speakers at the listening position. You do not need equal power to all channels to do this.

What you *do* want to match is the front soundstage speakers. It is best to have these closely matched, if not identical, to maintain consistent timbre and tonal qualities as sounds pan across the stage. It is best if the rears are also closely matched, but not nearly as critical. To this end you might consider getting a pair of VT-2's for your mains. You can probably find a used pair for less than $1200. The B&K's might be a touch on the warm side of neutral and should be a good match with these.

Finally, you ask about the video connections. Virtually everyone sees a very discernable difference moving from composite to S-video. Most see a discernable but less striking difference moving from S-video to component. You will need component video and digital-ready TV to take advantage of progressive scan DVD, which is also a very noticeable improvement over interlaced.
DD vs DTS. It's funny--I built my system over a period of a year or two five years ago (which is what I'm breaking up into two separate systems now), and after I was done, I pretty much stopped haunting the audio sites, primarily the USENET newsgroups. Coming back now to research rebuilding my HT system, it's like I never left with regards to the sniping, LOL. I posted a similar question on rec.audio.opinion, and they're so caught up in the same crap (who's a fraud, do cables matter, etc., etc.--the flames haven't changed in five years) that I never did hear back.

In any case, I knew I'd have to have some sort of complementing L/C/R speaker system, figuring I might keep the Energys, or I might keep the NHT center, but not both.

You mentioned the VT-2. I've been assuming NHT hasn't been the same company since Ken Kantor left, thinking I might be better off working with my Energy speakers (assuming they measure up when I get them hooked up). I could bore you all to tears with how great my NHT 3.3s are (which are going to my dedicated 2-channel music system), or how many speakers I auditioned before I settled on the 3.3s. What is the word on current generation NHT speakers (and the VT-2s) these days?

I must say I've been hoping to wall mount my left and right speakers--the wall behind the HT system has the basement on the other side, lending itself very well (read easy) to running wires behind the wall and back out again at the wall-mounted speakers. Obviously with the NHT line, the VT-2s aren't wall-mountable! With a quality sub I'm not worried, of course, about the bass aspects. With a growing baby, I like the idea of less stuff for him to draw with crayons!

On the other hand, I'm cognitive of the ambient aspects of having speakers out in the rooms a bit more, though bookshelf-size speakers on stands seem pretty untenable (and unsafe) with the baby. One of the best HT systems I ever heard (in a store) was using Magnapan speakers, but I don't have the room or the space for that.

I'm just going to have to break down and hook up the amps and speakers to see what I have in those Energy 22.1s. I've been holding off because I need a bridge from Salamander for my TV (the Salamander Synergy cabinet it used to sit on is in the living room now so I can lock my vacumn tube monoblocks in it--that's a whole other research thread I'm pursuing trying to determine how I'm going to keep them cool and how long I can get away with for interconnects.) In any case, the result of that research will determine what I get from Salamander, an extension for my Twin 20 cabinets or a new rack altogether, and at that time I was planning to buy the bridge for my Salamander Archetype racks I'm now using with the HT system--then taking on the task of putting everything back together.

Anyone want to chime in with their thoughts on the max length one would want to go with interconnects? With my high-end 2-channel living room set-up, I can either build up the Salamander Synergy cabinet from its roughly 20" height to something higher to accomodate the rest of my components (cd, dac, pre-amp, crossover because I'm bi-amping), or I could buy a new rack to be placed to the right of my listening position (the cabinets with the amps are between the speakers, of course), but this would require 25' to 30' interconnects from the preamp to the amps (which because the living room is above the basement I could easily run under the floor and back up again at the amps...) The latter is my preference as it seems the more elegant solution, not the least of which because I won't be left with something that would look like an entertainment center in my music-only living room, as well as having something large in the sound field between my speakers. Ah, me. Sorry for the side tangent--it's so easy to over-load the synapses when it comes to audio, no?
Kitchener,
Welcome to another RAO refugee! Like I said somewhere here recently, I just stop reading when the threads turn irreversibly ugly - never seemed to get more than 4 posts in at RAO ;-)

Can't say I've heard those Energy's and have no idea what center would match with them. I *have* listened a bit to the VT-2 (not the newer bipolar VT-2.4) and like them quite a bit. Other than the last year or so of their model run they would have been during the KK reign - certainly designed then, no?

I don't hink you have a problem with 30' interconnects - lots of 10 meter sub cables sold. This is admittedly not your primary music system anyway.

WRT the wall-mounting thing - can you get omni-mounts for a pair of VS-2's?