bat vk 60 vs rogue mono 120s

Some clarification:
I know both Mark O'Brien and Victor khomenko personally, and I am not comparing their personality or moral character, but as engineers who are measured by their success with their product. I am in a position to make a comment, especially one which relates to the fruits of their labors...namely, these amps. Next, I have owned two pair of Rogue M120s, the VK 500, VK 60, Used in the same system, with a Wadia front end, Aerial, Martin Logan and Magnapan speakers and all Nordost SPM and Quattro fil...I can tell you the differences. Yes, the BAT is more money, but you get what you pay for and in the case of BAT, that means excellent customer support, new tubes overnight, a great warranty and a low failure rate throughout the life of the product and the product line. When was the last time you checked with Madrigal Labs for a Levinson upgrade? How about Krell? Jeff Rowland?...Think about it: a ten year old piece of gear which you have derived much pleasure from, can be upgraded, not become obsolete, outdated, discontinued... The original Wadia D/A processor can still be brought up to current spec. Yes there is a cost, yes, it's expensive, but THIS is customer loyalty AND manufacturer loyalty if a piece of gear is still owned ten years from now, and the upgrades are still offered and the listener is still satisfied. Apples to apples, the VK 60 Monoblocks absolutely kill the M120's in every area of performance. Yes, the cost difference is great but only you, the listener, can decide if the sonic rewards merit the additional expense. Bottom line: whatever you do, audition BAT in addition to your other choices...you will like what you hear!

Sterling. I agree with you for the most part. The bat amps I have owned and heard are good. I have not had a chance to listen to the Rogue 120's to compare. The cost of the upgrade just miffed me a bit. I am now on a Kora Electronic Concept wagon as far as amps go. I am using the newer 50 watt Galaxy. I hope to add a second soon and strap them mono. I guess I would go as far as to say that it KILLS the Bat Vk-60. The reason I chose to answer the gentlemens question was because I have rolled many preamps over the last year and have found none that can touch Mark "O's Rogue 99 preamp. The finish is not as trick as the bat's I have had but it sounds like no other in my system. I saw this as an opportunity to praise Rogue and vent my dislike for companies like BAT that out source most of their products build up and then design revision after revision and gouge the customer that wants the update.

BTW Mark O' is building me a special phono board for the 99 I have and I told him in jest that he is "No Victor Komhenko". He laughed pretty hard so I don't think he will loose any sleep over it.

I do apologize to those guano lovers that I have offended.

Hello Cat, The point I think that is being misunderstood here is that the bat vk60se is not just an upgrade "it's a totally new product". I feel that bat is going out of their way for its previous loyal vk60 owners by offering the vk60se. Otherwise they would have to buy the 75se or the 150se at an even larger cost to keep up with the best bat has to offer. I don't think they should be begrudged for trying to do a good thing if anything they should be praised. You don't see ARC offering an upgrade for the VT200 to the REF series amps? But they do have ongoing upgrades to mk1, mk2, mk3 and each time the retail price goes up and up. This is something bat didn't do, the retail price stayed the same as far as I know from the beginning. They didn't announce a vk60mk1, vk602, or 3 as the years went by to make people feel like they needed to have the latest update. I hope this brings clarity to the viewpoint Sterling and I are trying to get across. I'm not offended if you like another design over the bat as no two people hear it the same way. I do feel think that you are way way of base by saying that bat is taking advantage of people by price gouging. Sonically they have repeatedly beat out competitors products costing up to and over twice as much to my ears. I urge people to make comparisons for themselves and trust their own ears. Regards, Tom

My dealer sells both BAT and Rogue and he has always made comments that have pushed me towards Rogue.Mark O.has a well designed business plan to offer hi-end performance audio gear that delivers true competition to the more expensive stuff.His advertising is is mostly word of mouth but he does have some ads in mags.that are obviously "budget" The cosmetics IMO are very nice but not fancy.When you buy a Rogue you buy the PERFORMANCE of some of the best audio hardware made.If some want to pay twice what Mark charges for similar performance,to each their own.Listener mag.recently reviewed the Rogue Tempest integrated and wrote a very brief "bio" of Mark.This guy has some mighty impressive back ground and education.I never knew before how qualified Mark really is.Before I bought my 99 I talked to many dealers.Some didnt even sell Rogue but I asked what they knew of Rogue anyway.The ones that did sell Rogue recommended Rogue over their "$better$" stuff.The ones that didnt sell Rogue commented (approx.50%) that if they carried Rogue it would hurt the sales of their higher priced stuff.The name of the game is money in their eyes.I'm glad my dealer was out to sell me the best he had without the need to make more from me by leading me towards the big buck stuff.

David99. I just received a special phono board for my 99 that Mark O'put together for me. He put a few fancier parts and sent me a full compliment of NOS GE's and Tung-Sols. It is as awesome sounding as the line stage. I talked to him at great lengths today and he is still laughing about the previous comment that he is no Victor Khomenko. As a professional he won't make a negative comment about a competitor. He is a real class act and seems to have fun building and talking about his wares. The guys at Kora are the same way. Just having fun in this crazy business. BTW I asked what it costs to have a set of 120's updated to "Magnum" status and he said they charge $1200. He defended BAT a little in the conversation because of the nature of these upgrades. He did not understand the extreme cost of the update that we have blathered about here. I guess it is just part of this low volume market. Well I will quit gobbing off here.