Help with purchase of power conditioner


Hello, Ive recently been looking into buying a power conditioner but I don't know much about them. My budget is limited to 300 dollars new or used. My setup is as follows

Fronts: Paradigm mini monitors
Center: Paradigm studio cc
Surrounds: Paradigm ADP 350
Sub: Paradigm PW 2200
sony dvd player(budget player)
Onkyo Integra dtr-7 reciever
monster cable interconnects and speaker cables
Old magnavox 27" tv(next upgrade)

I've never had any experience with power conditioners and would really appreciate your input.
rigo_19
Brian, there are several different things that PLC's are "supposed" to do. The obvious task is that they should filter out electrical noise. Some of the common sources of noise are listed below. Keep in mind that the noise may not even be generated in your house, it could be coming from somewhere nearby that shares the same pole transformer.

Pops and ticks from light switches, timers, thermostatically controlled devices, etc...

Hash from electric motors found in your fridge, fans, power tools, etc...

RF / digital noise from CB's / Ham radio's, clocks, microwave ovens, computers, etc...

Noise can even be generated by components WITHIN your audio system. I just talked to someone the other day that told me that their tuner / cd system interfered with each other. If they wanted to use one, they had to have the other turned off. I also know that many digital based products, especially amps that use switching type power supplies and cd players in specific, can pump a LOT of junk back INTO the AC line. Anything plugged into that line then gets to share the noise.

By using a "decent" Power Line Conditioner ( PLC ), parallel line conditioner ( RGPC, Audioprism Quiet Lines, etc... ), Isolation or balanced power transformers, true power regenerators ( PS Power Plant ), etc..., you can minimize the above problems and even isolate some of the components from each other in terms of AC crosstalk. Many different designs have several different filters within one chassis. This allows each component to have filtered power coming into it. It also filters what can go back INTO the line, which means twice the the filtering action and reduced interference / component crosstalk within the system itself.

What does all of this "hoopla" buy you ? If properly done, you can gain a much quieter / blacker background due to a lower noise floor, increased dynamic range, increased system resolution, more "liquid" presentation, increased separation of notes / instruments, less grain and glare, greater bass impact and definition, etc...

On the other hand, using low quality PLC's or using a PLC that is not appropriate for that specific application can result in squashed dynamics, strange soundstage effects, etc... Most of this would be due to current limitations ( long term or momentary ) within the filter itself. That is why many people tend to filter the line level equipment but plug their amps directly into the wall. This gives them quite a bit of "filtered protection" and avoids most of the problems associated with current limations.

Keep in mind that everything surrounding power line filtering is a band aid to a much bigger problem. You have to remember that all we are doing is "shaping" the AC waveform coming out of the wall and converting it into a musical signal via our audio equipment. Since 5% - 10% distortion would be considered "insane" in a "high fidelity component" ( except for speakers ), take into consideration that this is the type of signal that we typically feed each and every component in our system. Those are the levels of AC distortion that one can normally find coming into your dwelling if you live in a populated area.

As such, nothing short of TRUE power regeneration ( PS Power Plants* ) will give you "optimum" results. Those are the only devices that i know of that actually produce a pure and clean signal to work with. Others might make claims of "regeneration", but i've yet to see one that did. Unfortunately, "optimum" is typically equated with "state of the art" and anything that is "state of the art" typically costs a good chunk of change. A suitable Power Plant for a good sized system is no exception to that rule.

While a filter can remove most of the additional "junk" that is added to the AC supplied by your local power company along the way, it can't correct the deficiencies that it starts off with coming from the source. As such, one can see where removing 5% - 10% distortion right off the top might make a bigger improvement than trying to remove a small percentage of that through cumulative efforts ( various power line conditioners, power cords, parallel filters, etc... ).

Obviously, the first thing to do before shelling out tall cash would be to check into the power supplied to your components and see just how "dirty" it really is. This can be done by using a very simple yet effective device made by Audioprism called the "Noise Sniffer". You can literally listen and hear all of the junk coming into the AC system. You can do this outlet by outlet, circuit by circuit and hear the differences. You can even track down some of the "offending" devices and repair / replace / modify them as necessary. If you didn't have a bunch of noise, you could probably get away with a small amount of filtering. As noise levels escalate from there, so do the costs and complexity of the filters necessary to get the job done.

Keep in mind that many of these changes are cumulative and very subtle in nature. One can make a bunch of small changes that would go un-noticed by themselves yet might add up to something substantial when combined. That is the approach that i've been taking since i haven't had the money to dump into a more thorough "all in one" approach at one time. Sean
>

*For the record, i have no personal or business affiliation with PS Audio nor do i own a Power Plant. However, i do admit that I would like to purchase one in the very near future. My comments are based on the technical aspects of how various designs work. Obviously, results may vary due to a multitude of potential combinations and variables. Always "try before you buy" within the confines of your system whenever possible. Like i said, there is NO sense in buying something that you don't need.
I know that your budget is limited to $300,but if you can little bit up your budget to $350-$400,you can find used Richard Gray 400 !
Quote: "Those switches (two of them) on the Vansevers Reference conditioners that "don't do anything" are transient impedance switches. They are for tweeking the transients of the high and mid treble."

Sugarbrie: that's Vans Evers copywriting! Open the thing and see the emperor's new clothes for yourself...

Zaikesman: not everything that is transformer based will automatically work right. However, if properly executed they're a very effective solution. My 3000W ONEAC 220V beast works beautifully...so does my Power Var (just my DAC is plugged to it). As for TPT, it is not for surge protection. It is a materials treatment Tice has designed. Sort of a very powerful cable cooker. It works. I have talked with George Tice several times--he's a very forward and helpful person. The reason he has not patented TPT is that if he does he would have to reveal the process and then he'd only get a few years of protection. Also, he's a small time operator w/out the financial resources to chase everyone who would infringe on his patent rights. Tice has a 30 day money back guarantee--buy a TPT treated power cord and try it in your system. Plug your TV to it and watch...

Sean: my CDP and tuner don't like each other, too. Also, my DAC is the worst polluter in my system. It throws a lot of noise back in the power line.
No, not copywriting. I have spoken to Mike Vansevers myself about these switches. Mike has even personally modified one of his units for me. I have been using Vansevers for years; done extensive listening while playing with those switches, so I know what they do from long hours (years) of personal experience.

All you have done is look inside and saw some wire you can't explain. Since the Digital 12 does not have screws to open the case, it would indicate you must have pried it open (broke it) to look inside. You would then unable to put the case back together properly, so it must now be unusable.

Mike is an electrical engineer by training and former pro-audio engineer with over 30 years experience working with sound. For those interested in finding out more, you can read this extensive article in Soundstage.


http://www.soundstage.com/noisy15.htm


I like Tice also. I recommended them above.

I checked and "TPT" stands for "Tice Power Technology" Therefore it is just be some letters added for marketing purposes to make whatever they do to treat their power cords sound cool; the same as Adcom calling their surge protection setup "ILS Technology". Does not really matter as long as it works. Looks like George Tice burns/breaks-in the cable some, so it sounds better new out of the box. If so, it's perfectly fine and a good idea.

The following is cut and paste directly from Tice website:

The TPT treatment has already shown great potential for use in medical / laboratory imaging equipment, communications and general electronics.


Then he adds later:

At present TPT treated products are only available from Tice Audio.


Talk about marketing hype! He wants to imply his technique is a scientific marvel that could potentially save human lives; but he refuses to point to anyone who is actually using it other than him. At the very least he would have licensed the technology by now if there was demand for it from other industries. (After 12 years) Or he would mentioned companies he sells treated wires to. Instead we get vague statements that can't be verified.


Scotty: Beam me up.

Quote: "All you have done is look inside and saw some wire you can't explain. Since the Digital 12 does not have screws to open the case, it would indicate you must have pried it open (broke it) to look inside. You would then unable to put the case back together properly, so it must now be unusable."

I did not purchase the unit. Someone who's very knowledgable in these forums, electronics and really up to date on line conditioners showed me the unit...

All you have to do is purchase a Tice power cord or interconnect--it has a 30 day money back guarantee. I think TPT is a cable cooking process. As for myself, I am definitely going to get a 10-12 ft stretch of 8 ga TPT treated cord and make my own power strip.