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A somewhat unusual request for PrePro help

I have been in 2 channel high end for a long time. I've been very happy for many years with the following:

EAD T1000 transport
EAD DSP-7000 v.III D/A
Bedini Preamp
Bedini 803 amp
Shahinian Diapason speakers
Kimber and Siltech cables throughout

Like others I am struggling with the desire to move into HT, without sacrificing musical reproduction. My problem is as follows: my house does not allow me to support a dedicated 2 channel AND a HT setup (not enough room). I also find that most HT receivers I have heard (B&K, Denon, Yamaha, Marantz, some others) really do not sound all that good - each in their own way (relative to what I'm used to) for unadulterated musical listening. So I have decided to try and put together a HT system with parts of my existing system.

Since the space I have for HT is also non-ideal (it's big enough, but its arrangement makes for troublesome equipment placement), I decided that I would try to replace parts of my system in an effort to try and consolidate things. One of the first new things I bought was the Marantz DV-8400 DVD player. I listened to a few units (including Denon and Sony) in the hope of finding a universal player that would work well with 2 channel music. I settled on the 8400 because it was the best compromise (for me) given its cost. It does 2 channel in a nice, musical fashion. The low end is reasonably articulate (but does not go down quite as low as my EAD rig). The mid is somewhat laid back, but not recessed. The high end is (again) musical and reasonably airy (but not as extended or haze-free as the EAD rig). I know this sounds like a *negative* assessment, but it really isn't. Given that I was not about to look at a Linn Unidisk or anything like that, it's really quite nice. The Marantz is also quick and has nice pace. It was a steal at the price I paid. Plus, it's video performance is quite good.

So I am now looking to replace my Bedini pre with a HT prepro. Now I know that I *should* be looking at using my Bedini in some kind of pass-thru fashion with a HT device just handling multichannel, but I really am trying to consolidate things, so I am willing to make compromises, but only very SMALL ones (g).

I've read up on a few prepros, and have narrowed my interest to Bryston, Cary, Naim, and EAD. My desires are for the following:

Multichannel analog direct mode
2 Channel analog direct
Video switching is not a requirement
The usual other stuff that makes for HT audio capability (but well done)

I am primarily hoping to find something in the $2500-$4000 range (like new or new) that will help the 8400 in both the upper and lower extreme, but not at the expense of grain or hardness at the top, or boominess at the bottom. I am greatly interested in the Naim, but I am a little concerned about how much of the classic "Naim sound" it may have. Now my audio experience is all in 2 channel, and may be a little out of date. But my memories of the Naim sound were that of incredible pace and rhythm, and excellent midrange, a tuneful upper and lower end, but not as airy on the top or as resolved at either end as I would have liked. Additionaly, I found that the old style Naim sound tended (IMO) to impose that sort of Naim-toe-tapping effect on everything that went through it, even when it didn't seem right. Again, IMO, but if the Naim sound has evolved over the years to keep that sense of pace but also add extension and openness then it will definitely help in my thoughts regarding the AV2.

I would greatly appreciate help and opinions from those of you who are familiar with the sound of the Bedini/Shahinian combination (are there any left out there?). As far as speakers go, assume I will eventually move to maybe Arcs or the like for rears, but I don't know yet what to do about a center (unfortunately Shahinian does not make a shielded speaker).

Is it possible for the price range I've laid out to get HT sound that will at least approach what I'm used to?
tonyptony
jeffb28451
129 posts
 
Tonyptony:

Yes, Bedini's and Diapason's!! Look, I would have killed for that combo years ago, but ruined a great audio system to hybridize and "do" HT.

Beemer thinks like I do, he's more technical and talks a lot more, but I agree with him nearly every time. You've got great stuff, don't get rid of it. I made that mistake and my system is just now finding a voice again. EAD is still in my system, good. I would think you could add a EAD processor to your system. Dont dump your amp and pre, since they are synergistic with your speakers. I've done without center speakers most of the time (I rarely have people at the edges of the l/r soundfield) and I would think the quality of your Shihanians dispersion will more than make up for poor center channel. Centers make it really hard to do a consistently well balanced musical sound stage, even though they do help locate voices in videos. They may be the worst issue in hybridizing systems.

Hard steering units, like Lexicons, etc. ALWAYS messed up the quality I wanted. The ARC spd-1 (a glorified old Hafler circuit, with delay added) has always been waaaaay better for music and surprisingly near as good as the best for video. ( I know: from what I've heard, in my room, in my system, for my needs...)

I could rant, but I messed up a great audio only system years ago and I fear you may also. I've respected Bedini, Shihanians diapasons combo since I heard it years ago. My rooms have been too small or I would have owned it.

I HAVE owned a Mac 130 and a newer model Lexicon. I don't mind technology, I even use a TACT pre after my Emotive Audio Sira, to eq and time the room, so don't think that's the issue: I'm no Luddite.

Even if your hardware were capable of musical sounds, the current, non-standard production values of mixing and foleying surround video/ audio usually ends up with (consistently) very unsatisfactory music at the cost of (the occasional) good sounding video.

I know: you'll still do it: I did. Just don't get rid of anything you have (unless you upgrade the EAD stuff) and get stuff that will slip in and out of the sytem rather than jettisoning classic and musical equipment that you have. What I am sure of is that you have a wonderfully musical system that can do a fine job on video, as is and can be well augmented with a clean processor that has a good quality passive option.

Jeffb28451
sean
6,231 posts
 
My post was not meant to say that one can't enjoy music on an HT based system, only that it typically won't be quite as resolving. It is quite possible that some of the newer and / or more expensive products may work much better than my past experiences have led me to believe. Based on the reports here, it would seem that EAD gear may be what you're looking for, if it is within your price range. I have no experience with this brand, although it would appear that those that are familiar with it are quite pleased, both in 2 ch and HT. Sean
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tonyptony OP
617 posts
 
Jeff, I have NO intention of getting rid of anything of mine. Even if I ultimately replace my EAD transport / DA with the Marantz 8400, I will just box away the EAD stuff. Same for the Bedini 866.

I have been thinking the same thing about the center channel. I have never really taken to the whole center channel concept for either HT or music. I've found that there is an odd effect especially when sounds pan across all three front speakers (of those I have heard). So I'm going to go into this without a center (for right now); the Diapasons do just fine in developing a coherent center, thank you. (Of course, in about a month Everest will be releasing classic true three channel recordings, so that brings up a whole 'nother problem!)

Your last point is the key: who makes a good "clean processor that has a good quality passive option"? My thoughts during these past few days have led me to believe that if I can find such a thing, then I can keep my Bedini gear in line and have the processor just be a passive through to the amp for two channel use. Then for HT I can just switch in the processor for multichannel stuff. Sound like a doable plan?

It's nice to hear from someone else who doesn't think either Dick Shahinian or John Bedini were / are some kind of odd footnote in high end audio. Dick especially has never gotten the recognition he deserves (IMO).
tonyptony OP
617 posts
 
I understand your position, Sean. I've done some further research into the postings here, and there are more than a few people who have tried this and not been happy. So I have to consider that it is a difficult thing to do, at best. I think my first post perhaps was not as clear as I would have liked. If you see my response to Jeff you'll see that what I would like to try and do is keep as much of my system intact as possible. I really don't want to necessarily replace my preamp with a prepro - that was the hope. But if I can't do that then I'm willing to see if there's a good prepro or just a good processor that has a pure passive pass thru so that I can put it between my preamp and amp in that mode for 2 channel use. Then have that passive tap switched into the multichannel processing for when I want to do HT. Does such a good thing like this exist?
tburn
35 posts
 
Just perusing here - didn't see anyone mention the Aragon Soundstage. Perhaps you've already discounted for whatever reason - I can only say I've been very satisfied with mine. It's been powered up for 3 yrs. continuous w/ nary a glitch, other than the remote readout being a little confused these days.
I used it for a good while for 2 ch listening and thought it was quite good. I later added the Audio Note M5, and to these untrained ears, although surely more refined, it never put the Aragon to shame. The M5 has pass-through, so the Aragon still does the lion's share of the work for the rest of the family, as other endeavors have severely limited my 2 ch. time.
I might note that the Soundstage was upgraded to the Stage 1 w/ added features, so I found it interesting lately when noticing the used asking prices for the Soundstage had actually increased from when I was more closely following over a year ago. Inflation, or demand, can't say...
Good luck with your setup...

Tom
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