Out of Control


I was looking at one of my highend mags the other day. And looking at the spec's of some speakers and find it hard to believe the outragous prices. I mean does it really get that much better at 10k, 15k, 30k and up. I've listened to speakers in the 25k range and was not impressed at all. I've been also looking at subs and some of them in the 1,500 and up catagory were paper treated, I always thought woven carbon fiber or poly was used for the top notch and whats with a class G amp in that sub when you spend 3k or better. Let's take power cords at 1k, I audioned one at home and took it a part, I can buy the same material under $100. I cannot really comment to much on amps, but some of the nicer ones above 3k have less parts, to me that means it took less time to build. Tweaks are another one I won't go into. Sometimes you just feel overwelmed. I was just wondering if anyone else gets a bit raddled about this. I know they have to make money, but lets be real. Just a bit bored today, so I thought I'd start a new thread. Don't get me wrong, I still have a few more pieces to add.......
Pete
pcc
I've never heard a Pass designed amp that had "killer bass". Nonetheless, most of them sound phenomenal from about 200 - 300 Hz and up. Soft yet still fully articulate and loaded with detail. Combine this wih "air", a deep and wide soundstage and overall sonic beauty and you have the trademarks of Nelsons' handiwork. If your not into "slam", you owe it to yourself to check these out. Sean
>
PBB agrees with Pcc, for whatever that's worth. There is one constant in Audiogoninsane and the written press in general: bigger bucks always equate with better sound. How insecure are audiophiles anyway? Can you really hear a significant difference between a pair of Bryston 7B-STs (MSRP $5,260/pair) and, let's say, a pair of Accuphase M-2000 monoblocks (MSRP $33,000/pair) , unless you strain your ears or your imagination or both? If, at least, people were honest enough to say that pride of ownership is the one aspect that makes one chose one amp over the other, but no, the true audiophile will swear up and down that he hears a significant difference and that he actually is getting value by spending six and half times the money. Hearing an irrationally priced piece of equipment is tantamount to going to the Gypsy woman to get your fortune read, even if you don't believe in it, it plays on your mind. And to many the only way out of temptation is to succumb. The $7,300 cable has to sound better than the $73 cable right? Well, just in case, let me have it, where do I sign the loan document? Maybe too preachy, but right nonetheless. How is Albertporter these days anyway. Which cable is now the one to buy this month? And what about cooking one's cables. Sorry, I have to go and sharpen those spikes, damn the high frequencies are bad when the spikes get a bit dull...
Pbb, I beg to differ on yr amps example because I have heard HUGE differences, in an unrestrained manner. This said, however, the whole system was commensurate (Accuphase quality levels). Also, I listen to classical, a lot of it live -- which influences my tastes...

As to the cables example... comparing branded cables, IMO the 7,4k one WILL sound better than the $73 one, for ONE simple reason: the 7,3k is *priced* higher. This does not necessarily mean that production cost is 100x higher..!

Cheers!
Gregm, I have three words for you, which will forever and a day relegate me to the level of the great unwashed tin-eared mid-fi legions: "double blind testing". I'm sorry, I am a sceptic. My point is that the power of suggestion is such that we, as humans, are apt to believe that something, anything in fact, that is very expensive has to be better. We may quibble and say that brand x is better than brand y, notwithstanding the fact that brand x is costlier, so long as brand y is also so expensive as to make it attainable only to a few. My question to you, in closing, is the following: do you actually know what goes into making those recordings? Put another way, do you honestly think that you can get mo' better music coming out of your lp or cd than is actually put there in the first place by the process of amplifying the signal? Isn't the whole notion of high end audio, at the listening end of the chain predicated on the belief that the recording process is so far ahead of what we have to play the recording with that we can still wring out improvements by heroic means on the listening end? I know, for some, everything in the chain is a signal processor, has a sound signature, from caps, to copper, to cables, to the chassis in which all of this stuff is put. If every minute detail was perceptible and as important as strato-high-end audiophiles say and want them to be, we are indeed the zenith of God's creatures. It has gotten to a level where some audiophiles can actually hear the sound of sub-atomic particles. Give me a break! I am, and shall remain, a sceptic. There is a difference between a good system and a not so good system. The rest is the trivial pursuit of keeping up with the Jones' of this audiophile world and the daily feeding of neurotic anxieties. More emphasis should be placed on listening to the music, understanding it in a technical, musicological and aesthetic way. Luckily, people are free to choose how they want to use their time and what they want to believe in. I simply have no time to spend on being duped. Making of minute differences in sound, that are barely, if that, perceptible is, to my mind at least, trivial. If you have to strain to hear a difference (a.k.a "improvement") when a component is changed in a good quality system, it probably just isn't there. The small, tiny, incremental improvements can add up to something of significance, I agree, but again, on close inspection, you realise that the sum of all of these is not the revolution that the audio press and ad people for high end manufacturers announce every month.
Pbb, answering your question: I agree. S/W is the first limitation in our (my) reproduction chain. In this respect, discussions are about "getting the best out of my (limited) s/w".
In "emphasis should be placed on listening to the music" - (rather than the machines): I couldn't agree more! Just that in playback we listen *through* machines...

Hence, discussion often centres around the means of reproducing music rather than the music itself. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that members of this site are machine junkies. On the contrary, most (all?) are like-minded with you: listening and enjoying music is our "drug"!

As to prices of equipment... all I can say is, I've listened to expensive equipment (badly tuned, maybe?) that performed less well -- to my ears -- than less expensive equipment. And vice-versa. Indeed, in our small niche market, the cost of producing AND MARKETING, say, a pre is quite high; components can be expensive as they get better, getting the circuit design right is time consuming and expensive, etc -- and reaching the end user (us) is VERY expensive.

Maybe the latter explains why in Europe, there is a trend towards buying direct from small garage constructors!

Cheers!