Is this why my analog rig isn't so hot?

Dear Raul,

I appreciate your comments and I am trying to help George. I wanted to alert him to another possible problem area before dishing out for a new cartridge or spending many futile hours with setup, after all you can't get blood from stone.

The systems that I heard these tables in is irrelevant, let's just say that I know them intimately. The Basis isn't a chameleon, it sounds that way all the time. I've heard the Graham and associated Benz cartridges in enough different setups to know how much of the sound is attributed to the arm and cartridge and how much to the table. I always check the setups carefully before listening and coming to any conclusions. But in this case there really isn't much to think about, the construction of the table tells all!

>>I ask to you ¿which will be your whole specific recomendation for George<<

Back to my initial posting to George; "take a step back and start over again with a new analog setup instead of wasting more time and money on this one."

Mama

Ken,

Thanks for giving us some examples of the tables you're comparing the Basis to. I am not familiar with the sound of many of these but at least I now I think I have a base to make some analysis for myself. I may be misinterpreting your preferences and please let me know if I am wrong here, but it seems to me that you would tend toward metal tables. Although you do mention that a Linn would be a good choice. But you also say that Teres should be avoided. Interesting given the well known testament of a long time Linn dealer about how much he loves his Teres, not to mention many other happy Teres owners. But to each his own. And that is what I, and I believe NGeorge, are trying to do. Learn and find out for ourselves.

As I said in a previous post, I have pretty much the same setup as NGeorge except that I have a Vector tonearm. I simply don't understand the characterizations that the table is dark and rolled off. Now my MMF 7, that's a different issue. :) But even with that table I can get very strong top end with good loading and VTA/VTF. Admittedly there are more tables and combinations that I have not heard than those that I have. That's why I bought my Basis combo recently. At slightly less than the retail of the arm alone it was too good to pass up. Most likely will not be the last table I own, but now I have one more tool in my toolbox to learn with.

Raul,
Normally, I'd have let your counterpoint stand without a retort but as you used my name several times in your reply, I feel obligated to comment.
The issue here is not that George couldn't eventually band-aid his rig into submission but that he's wasting his energies and monies in doing so.

Re:
>>>"...there are many issues on your high frecuency problem because any single link in your audio system chain is important: room, electronics, loudspeakers, cables, position of your loudspeakers, etc..."<<<

Georges system is a very thorough and complete "textbook" 47 Labs assemblage. He is happy,nay elated, with it's performance on the whole yet he doesn't find that the vinyl portion is meeting his expectations gathered from that which he receives from his digital source.Why muck with the overall system when it's producing the goods for him? The finger points to the vinyl rig.
He's much better off in stepping back and setting up a new game plan that will suit his tastes over the long haul.
Sure the internal impedance of his MO Benz Glider isn't optimal for his standard gain Phonocube but as an owner of such and having used both the standard and high gain models in a variety of situations, I am confident that this isn't the primary source of his dissatisfaction.His futzing over the quality of his vinyl reproduction has been a long standing concern for George over a number of years.It's time for him to move on and solve the problem at the source.


RE:
"70% to 80% of the quality of the sound reproduction comes from the tonearm/cartridge combo"
That tells me more about your musical value system than I cared to know.

regards,
Ken

Dear George: As you say in your thread: " My system is quite decent,..." , I agree with you, and that's why I give you other advise:

take 3-4 peoples ( each one at a time ) that are in serious touch with live music ( not with audio systems ) and ask them that take a " hear " to your audio system sound reproduction and " see " what happen, which is the single opinion of them. This exercise can help you a lot ( we really can't help you more at " long distance ". We don't know what are you hearing ).
Many times ( always ) we are asking more to our audio systems but always there is a limit and we have to know it.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear George,

I try to refrain from recommending any specific brands to people, its never that simple. What good is anyone's recommendation without a reference point when you have none?

The brands that you mention is a starting point to educate yourself, especially since they're from very different schools. Check and see if either one is closer to your ideal sound. If working on your own this is a difficult journey but one worth taking, otherwise if you want hand holding, find a good dealer (they exist!) or an experienced fellow audiophile with the kind of sound that you want, to show you the ropes. You need to hear these things for yourself!

Whatever problems there might or might not be with your arm/cartridge and the rest of your system is secondary. You need to start with a reference point and build up from there, the turntable is the foundation of your source. You'll never be able to figure out the arm/cartridge/phono without this reference.

Mama