Is this why my analog rig isn't so hot?

Doug,

I guess I need to clarify my 60hz-70hz comment, I know the B&W published specs, but that's not the same as true bass. Of all the speakers that I know I can only think of a couple which can do even 40hz of real bass. As Raul so nicely explained, bass is extremely difficult to reproduce and it has all to do with physics. You need volume to reproduce bass and most speakers are too small to do that, only something the size of a Wilson Grand Slamm can start to approach 40hz bass, that's if your room can support it. Low bass is going to be a bitch, the best sub 40hz bass I've heard was from giant horns of 7-8 meters long, even then there was precious little below 25hz. I'm not counting fundamental frequencies, just true bass. I'm sure you've seen a pipe organ or two in churches, please note the size of the pipes that reproduce the low notes!

Raul- You mentioned subwoofers that could reproduce proper low bass, what have you heard?

Mama

Dear Raul,
Which harmonic of a 16Hz test tone is lower than the 32Hz organ tone at the beginning of 'Zarathustra', which we hear quite easily?

On the HFN lateral resonance track Paul and I both hear pitch-differentiated test tones at 24, 22, 20, 18 and 16Hz. On the vertical resonance track we hear and distinguish 25, 23, 21, 19 and 17 Hz. I do not claim our system can reproduce these tones with flat frequency response. But reproduce them it can and does.

This is the physical reality on our rig in our home, which you admit you've never heard. When theories don't explain observed realities then it's time to revise the theories. I am fully aware that this process can be uncomfortable.

You have often urged me to listen before passing judgement. That was good advice.

Regards,
Doug

Dear Yourmama: Bag-End ( I can't remember the model ),a pair of Velodyne HGS-15 and a pair of HGS-18.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

oh my. seems i've stirred a hornet's nest.lol

Let me get a couple points out right off the bat.
I've had contact with George for several years via email and thru his regular postings on the 47Labs mailing list. As a result,I've been privvy to more of his tastes,viewpoints, concerns and goals than would be apparent to those just reading this thread. He is not a client but because of shared interests and thoughts exchanged, consider him a friend. As we've covered many of the same related issues before and over a period of several years, I probably relate more directly and personally to George than I would a stranger.
My shortlist recommendations to him are based on what I perceive are HIS own personal needs and requirements gathered over this multi year timeframe.If asked for shortlist recommendations to a different person of different goals,system and tastes, my response would be different than I presented to George.
I also personally own and use 47Labs phonocubes in my home system and business. It's function is quite different to that of a conventional phono preamplifier device.One does not alter the load but rather chooses from one of two versions( standard and Hi output ) to match the *gain* based on the internal impedance of the coils of the cartridge being used. Deviating from the ideal internal impedance *range* simply DOES NOT change the tonal balance or basic character of the phonocube. It mearly means that you have an appropriate amount of gain and can thus optimumise the S/N ratio.

best,
k

Yourmama,
We are talking at cross purposes and very much OT of course. My apologies to NGeorge.

I merely mentioned that a Teres 265 can reproduce sub-20Hz notes when properly equipped with a suitable arm and cartridge. I made that remark only to demonstrate one of the capabilities of the Teres brand, which you had previously dismissed out of hand without explanation.

I'd still like to hear your reasons for that dismissal, which might get us back to the topic of this thread.

Cheers,
Doug