Speaker wire is it science or psychology

Jpharris's post raises an interesting question: If you can measure a difference in frequency response (hard to imagine how wire could impart such a large boost to any part of the frequency range) but you can't tell the difference in listening double blind like stevem (or is it Arnold or mtry??) says, which is right?

I take no position on this matter. I believe all you wires is wires guys when you tell me there is no reason why any 2 wires should sound different and I take it on faith that I am delusional when I hear differences. I am especially mad (i.e., loony) because the differences I hear have almost no correlation with price. I like some cheaper stuff better than some expensive stuff.

But the differences I hear are not so much in tonality, except at the extremes (w/re frequency and design), but in midrange clarity, imaging and sibilance.

This thread hasnt become abusive yet, but I hope it doesnt go the way of the cable forum on Audioreview.com or the cable talk threads on rec.audio.opinion (not defunct, just useless).

I think you neglected to read my post, if you think there has been no evidence to prove to you that different cables sound different. If you do not take my word for it, I will provide you with the "scientific proof" you so desire. I have an article where about 10 cables were tested. The test consisted of a musical signal being passed through a meter(ocsilloscope? - it's been a while since I read the article, but you best believe I can dig it up). The signal was plotted at various points in the audio spectrum. The signal was passed through using each cable involved in the test. THERE WERE MAJOR DIFFERENCES IN THE SIGNAL WITH EVERY CABLE INVOLVED. None of them did as well as we would hope. But, if that isn't scientific proof that wire is fact, not psychology, then it is a good thing you are not a scientist.

I hear noteable, often stunning differences between cables and interconnects, as I did between stereo receivers in the mid-70s when the dealers told me there were no such differences (that's how I got into this hobby in the first place). I do very little blind testing myself (it's difficult to do casually), but intellectually I believe it is compelling. This is because I know that I bring to any evaluation of any product a strong set of perceptions and preconceptions about the product, a function of how it looks, what it costs, what its name is, what its logo looks like, what reputation it has, and so on. In my line of work, this is called "brand perception."

Although what I hear often is very different from what I expect to hear, I freely acknowledge that I bring these preconceptions to the party when I evaluate products, and they play some role--maybe small, maybe large--in my final evaluation of a product. Unless you are from some other planet, you are the same, try as you might otherwise.

This is why, it seems to me, blind listening tests are important. They let us separate true differences from those we hear as a result of not only what we hear but of all the other factors we bring to the listening experience It isn't about the science or lack thereof of cable differences. It is about using a scientific method (or even just a little common sense discipline) to do SUBJECTIVE listening. And I will add, the blind listening method itself deserves careful scrutiny. My experiece is that rapid A-B switching hides real differences in a big way.

In the end, the goal isn't to weed out brand perceptions from our component choices. We choose what we choose becaue we like it and it makes us happy. Pride of ownership is part and parcel of being an audiophile The goal is to separate true audible differences from the other things that influence our choices, so that we have this knowledge when we make our choices. -Dan

Paulwp: A wire really can affect frequency response. In fact, the scientists would tell you that's about the only thing it can affect--although a RatShak SPL meter is not an appropriate test tool here. Sean's right about 18 vs 12 gauge (although his side-by-side mono test is not the right way to find out)--assuming the cables are long enough the difference will be audible. (18-gauge has pretty high resistance.) As for the effects you say you hear, sibilance is plausible--high-frequency roll-off is a common effect. Imaging is dominated by source material and speaker-room interaction (which is frequency-dependent, so who knows?) Clarity is in the ear of the beholder.

Trelja: I've seen similar measurements, but they don't, by themselves, prove what you think they prove. Just because a difference is measurable (and every cable will measure differently) doesn't mean it's audible. Whether we can hear a frequency response anomaly depends on how big it is, how braod a band it covers, and whether it's a dip or a peak. That said, some cables do affect frequency response enough to be audible. Most of those roll off the high end, which some audiophiles seem to like even though they insist they're looking for something that sounds like "real music." Go figure.