2. cables
  3. 1058894209

Which cables go with what?????

I never fails to amaze me, the questions people ask on this forum, always trying to find some synergy between cables and their components/speakers.

The fact is: there are two classes of cables:
1) Those that are neutral
2) Those that impose a sonic signature (tone controls of a sort)

If the average audiophile spent his time trying to weed-out the tone control cables and get some neutral cables, then all that would be left is to determine the right synergy between his or her components. This may mean elimination of an offensive component, as painful as that sounds.

Component synergy is real. Amps and speaker combinations definitely need to be selected carefully. In some cases also preamp-amp synergies are important. If you are using tubes, then there are even more compatibility issues. But cables, forget it. If you are trying to compensate for a poor component or speaker design by using tone control cables, you will probably never be happy and likely compromise the sound of the other components in the process. You will certainly never approach a live or "master-tape" sound. There, that's my editorial. Hopefully some will learn from it.
audioengr
lemec5b2
67 posts
 
Sean, have you demonstrated the dynamic loading you describe? Have pictures(not those kinds:))?

One other point is many of the sonic qualities used to describe the differences beteween cables are identical to those you would expect to describe the sound between a system in and outside of an rfi environment. Terms like "dynamic compression, zippy-highs, no bass" etc. probably mean that rfi to some extent is entering or overloading the input stage or even causing oscillations in an output stage. That would explain why some cables work in some systems and not others, it depends on each components resistanse to environmental factors which will change depending on the loading to each other.

A cable with good shielding may have a higher capacitance that the output stage doesn't like, that's why a good component should be able to drive significant capacitance, then differences between well sheilded cables will be negligible. So in difference to these cable manufacturers claims, picking a good component first will eliminate the never ending cable search, just find one with good sheilding and construction.

steve
subaruguru
1,376 posts
 
Hi guys. I'm packing for Italy for a month, so didn't read the thread. Guess I'll miss a lot. Have a fine August, everyone. Ernie
audioengr OP
3,282 posts
 
Flex wrote:
"In response to the original post, cable differences go deeper than coloration. Two cables can be equally neutral on chromatic scale, yet differ greatly in macro/micro dynamics, noise floor, speed, clarity, detail resolution versus smoothness, and quality of imaging."

I agree completely. The confusion has to do with the definition of the word "neutral". In this sense, I use it to mean a cable that imparts no sound of its own. This is much more than just a flat steady-state spectral response.
audioengr OP
3,282 posts
 
Sean - what I do in my own reference system to eliminate most of the "dynamic loading effects" is the following:

Preamp with very low-impedance output - 7 ohms
Power amps with very low impedance output
Speakers with flat impedance response - 3 ohms
Cables with extremely low loss and dielectric absorption

This way, I have a reference system that is extremely tolerant to differing loads. The interaction between components is small. This way when I mod different components, I can insert them into the system and really hear the improvement and not spend all of my time troubleshooting and swapping other components to get a good synergy. I want to eliminate as many variables as possible.

I do have one known issue. The power amps need significant current to stay dynamic. A passive linestage proved to be dissapointing to me.

At HE2003, I used all tubed components in our active system. Here, synergy between speakers and amps was very significant. Once we found this synergy, the magic happened. However, as always, using our cables avoided having the cables "add" any sonic signature of their own. And we used 15-foot unshielded IC's too.
flex
292 posts
 
Keep at it Audioengr. This is an area long overdue for both measurements and some consistent engineering thinking on how to put systems together intelligently. Most audiophiles can probably agree that the wire game, including and especially power cords, is beyond reason.
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