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Manners, Eticks & Audiogon --- What do you think???

MANNERS

I am not holding myself out as Mother Theresa, Ralph Nader or Emily Post.....but.
Have any of you folks responded to a for sale ad and never gotten a response? Like even a response of the sort that says: thanks for your interest but the item is sold? Or perhaps: I have changed my mind and my Widget 1.5 (Rev 2) is no longer for sale?

My experience may be atypical, but I find that at least 30% of the folks I have communicated with/attempted to communicate with through the Audiogon eMail forwarding system never respond. And some respond days later. (The majority of folks impress me as passionate hobbyists who are scrupulously honest and could not be more polite.) Do you think there is a problem with the A-gon eMail system and that the mail just doesn't get delivered? Or, merely with the manners of some of the advertisers?

ETHICS

Unfortunately, my impression is that a minority of people here also.....to state it as politely as possible.....take poetic license with the truth in constructing their ads.

Example #1: I responded to a recent (perhaps still current....have not checked) ad which concerned me. The seller/copy writer said that he was selling his component "because of court order." The context in which he made this claim gave the following meaning to the claim: this component works so well that it has caused so much havoc in my environment that people have gone to court and a judge has ordered me to sell my component. I was wondering just what jurisdiction was going to order someone to sell a hi-fi component. . . . as opposed to ordering the person to turn it down after, say, 10:00 PM.

I got an answer from the advertiser. Without directly admitting that he had fudged a bit he made it clear that there was no court order but that neighbors had griped.

What do you folks think? The claim would not be taken seriously by most people, I don't think....but is it okay to make stuff up like that in this collegial form---in a for sale ad? I think it is borderline. But, only because most of us have the good sense to discount or just plain ignore such a claim.

Example #2: This person was offering a component for sale. After an eMail which asked some specific questions this person responded that he had sold an even fancier unit to the owner of the item that was for sale. That he, the advertiser, had offered to sell his customer's former component for him. He did respond to some of the questions. Other questions he just plain did not respond to. Even after two or three follow-up eMails. Of minor concern was his failure to answer a question about the value of a resistor in the component. No "I don't know" or anything of the kind. A polite answer to the eMail but no answer to that question. Of much greater concern: I asked him, since this was not his component was his statement in his ad, to the effect that "sounds wonderful" based on his having hooked it up and listened to it? Did it have any hum or make any funny noises? Once again -- a polite eMail back but the question as to whether this person had any basis for rating the performance of a piece of gear whatsoever --- remained, and still remains, unanswered.

What do you folks think? Is it caveat emptor on Audiogon. Do sellers have a duty to be forthright and answer questions directly and responsively? Is it okay to just ignore a question that you don't want to answer because you don't want to flat out lie and don't want to loose a sale if you tell the truth? Even if the truth is relatively benign like say: I don't know, personally---I am taking the word of the owner?
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peter_s
1,348 posts
 
I hope this isn't an unwanted intrusion on this thread (another ethical question) but I recently had a situation that I'd like people's ethical opinions on:

I responded to an add for a NIB component that someone had bought and then decided to upgrade immediately (I can't say how true his story is). Anyway, I promptly sent a money order, and when he received it he told me that the dealer had contacted him to let him know that some of the units had been damaged in transport. He passed this info on to me, opened the box, tried it, and reportedly found it to be broken.

The question is - what is his ethical responsibility? I still wanted to purchase the unit, and figured that the dealer would provide him a new one since it was dead NIB. Yet it would still take him a little extra work to go make the switch and then send it to me. Yet he did advertise it NIB, and that presumably means working. What would be the ethical thing for him to do - just return my money or get a new unit from the dealer and ship it?

BTW - Nice point ASA. Those who you can trust generally rise to the surface if you keep your eyes and senses open.
ucmgr
173 posts
 
Polite people will always respond in a timely manner. Sure, I've bought and sold many items over the past few years and most all have been a real pleasure. When I list something for sale, once an email is received, I try my best to respond as quickly as time permits. Occasionally it might take until the next morning because I've been away from the office where I do most of my corresponding because I'm there most of the time anyway. Courtesy demands courtesy. I've learned that proper communication is critical in any field, but not all folks feel the same way. I'm in the retail sales business...our customers demand a quick, knowledgable response or they'll call someone else. Whether you're buying or selling, there's always a chance that the opposite party hasn't done it as many times or feels intimidated by the sales process. I used to get pissed over the same things that you all have experienced, but life's too short to stay too mad for too long.
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
As a salesman myself, I agree with Ucmgr. "Rule #1: The customer is always right; Rule #2: If the customer is wrong, see Rule #1." All customers feel insecure, because they believe that they need or desire something, but know that they'll have to pay to get it, and therefore worry that they'll be taken advantage of. This insecurity can lead to some spectacularly squirrelly defensive behavior, and we are all susceptable to it in some degree. All sellers need to understand that this is just an inevitable part of the terrain, and be prepared to handle the results of this psychological fact with an equanimity which stems from the realization that you are actually more dependent upon the customer than they are upon you. The web's greater anonimity certainly plays a part in reducing the sense of obligation or inhibitions toward discourteousness in a sales interaction, but the fundamentals of the situation are nevertheless unchanged.

There will on rare occasions be customers who are genuinely in the "wrong", meaning they are trying to scam or take advantage of a seller (although professionally speaking, most of what salespeople complain about is usually their own fault for not incorporating properly into their overall approach, and the rest is their responsibility to deal with in a professional manner - besides, the reverse is always more common universally), but the professionally competent salesperson (or in this case, the polite and sincere seller) will always do their best to treat all customers with a high degree of consistency and patience, if they want to be successful. Selling should never be taken personally - you will fail miserably, because no one trusts a salesperson, and no one wants to be sold by someone they don't trust. When I respond to an ad and receive no answer, or an uninformative answer, I don't take that personally either; I simply know that I'm dealing with a poor seller, and stay away. When I place an ad, I consider it to be my responsibility to answer all the responses it generates without exception, because that is what is required for me to be a good and trustworthy - and therefore successful - seller. The nature of the potential buyer's questions, or their possible lack of further response once answered, is just the way that things are; I can't control it, I can't change it (and since they don't know me, I certainly can't be insulted by it) - I can only control my own behavior, and I will not deviate from my own correct course of action just because someone else acts differently, for only my own actions are reflective of me.

By and large, I have found the sense of community among the folks I've interacted with on A'gon to be satisfactorily high as a group, and suspect that the ones who fall below the standard set by most tend to wander away after a while anyhow. Regardless, I don't feel that I have anything to complain about here in general - I enjoy myself on A'gon a lot more than I don't, and the site's helped me out with my audio goals a lot more than it hasn't. It's no great disappointment to me if not everyone who comes around here acts perfectly, or that I can't totally let my guard down, because I can't and don't expect those things to begin with. After all, as much as we audiophiles may be trying to escape it, this is still the real world. Happy listening in it!
rrick
23 posts
 
I always use the email as a test and inquiry about the seller. No response or incomplete answers? Walk away. Remember, the transaction includes both the item and the seller. You need to be happy with both, or you're setting yourself up for trouble.

Caveat Emptor? You better believe it. Patience is a real virtue here. Don't be in too much of a hurry and you will find the quality item with a good seller.
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