Woofer pumping - what gives?


Some years ago I noticed that regardless of the speakers, cartridge or preamp in the circuit my woofers pump wildly out of control the more I advance the volume while playing an LP. They don't seem to be responding to the musical signal but something else. The sound is fine. My humble rig is a Dual 1219 with a NOS Shure M91ED cartridge. Tapes made from the same LP's do not exhibit this odd behavior. Who knows why woofers look like they're going nuts while playing an LP?
rockvirgo
Seandtaylor99 is dead correct. I have seen this on the lead-in track of some LPs - no audible sound, but the woofers were doing the "wubba wubba" inaudibly and grotesquely - like a fat man bellydancing!

One thing I _have_ noticed, is that once you hit a certain point, the "wubba wubbas" start to grow exponentially - this certainly implies the energy from the speakers is being picked up again and reamplified by the phono cart and pre, causing a dangerous and unattractive "wubba wubba" feedback loop. Woe unto he who step unwittingly into one of these.

There is hope... isolation can help here, as others have mentioned. I ran an experiement with a turntable on my equipment rack, on the floor, and on the floor on top of a soft pillow (ok, my cat's bed - he never uses it, typical cat.) The rack and floor setups both produced dangerous excursion on an affected record. There was some excursion with the on-the-floor-with-soft-pillow combo, but I was able to go from 9-o-clock volume to almost 12-o-clock before the "wubba-wubbas" started to grow exponentially. This was a very major improvement with isolation, and we're *still* only talking about the lead-in track to an LP side. So this really does point to some serious LF information coming off the record warp, and does not make any statement about program content causing this, whether it can or not.

I've isolated my TT (on foam computer wrist rests... nothing fancy), and my speakers are now fully horn-loaded up front, so if any "wubba-wubbas" are present, I can't tell or see them any more.

I've heard "rumble filter" used before as terminology for the filters that remove these "subsonics". In any event, gotta get rid of those wubba-wubbas.

Mike
Mwilson, could a "wubba-wubba feedback loop" also be termed a "dubba wubba-wubba"?
Man is this contagious? I think I have it too!! I just set up a table (not too well mind you).

I was using a JA Michell phono stage and it wasn't marked left/right so I guessed which in/outs to connect to. It was making horrid sound as the volume increased and then went away briefly when I turned down the volume. When I raised the volume, it happened again... over and over and over. Annoying.

Just now, I switched the connectors around on the phono stage and the wubba-wubba stopped... But I have a small hum from the phono now.

Geez... is this ever easy?
Thanks to all for the responses. Mike's description of the exponential phenomenon is spot on. I ran some comparisons tonight and the dramatic looking woofer-wubbing occurs only at rock-approved levels or slightly below; equally with the dustcover on, up or off; equally between music cuts or during them; and not at all, regardless of volume setting, with the stylus out of the groove, the platter spinning and the tone arm cued up. The stylus rides flat on the test LP's so I doubt warping is the issue, unless you consider a record groove to be a warp of the vinyl blank.
I never noticed the wubba effect with the grills in place. Though I have new admiration for their wubba hiding properties, I'm leaving them off anyway.
The whole rig's fidelity to the suggested subsonic signature even with no recorded signal present makes me wonder: is subsonic woofer wubbing inherent by nature in the LP playback process?