Continuation of my Thread on VPI, Basis, Origin...

Hi ya Been Rwd? I think I gave some input on a thread with a similar question you ask now. Not sure. I will pass along what myself and friend Jcbtubes felt about these TTs. The VPI with your arm, the top of the line Audio Research Phono Stage, The pre amp i do not remember. I am sure Jcbtubes will remember should he post. I think the cartridge was a Benz, not sure of the spelling. The VPI that we listened to was the latest, greatest, TNT at the time. This took place about a year ago. Very nice sounding setup.

We then listened to the Basis 2500, Graham arm, and i think a VDH cartridge. The phono section we listened to did not have near the reputation of the ARC phono section. The preamp used was made by Jcbtubes. As nice as the TNT sounded, it could not come close to what we heard from the 2500. We tried to be as polite as possible. Very hard when it was so obvious that the TNT was no contest for the Basis 2500. I realize there could be many reasons why the TNT failed to compete with the 2500. I would love to give a good reason. We did not do this comparison in a manner which would benefit the Basis. In fact, The TNT had a dedicated stand, some kind of device that makes sure the motor is always running at the proper speed. But the TNT sounded slow, rounded, too rounded, not even close in bass performance, with a soundstage that sounded a bit closed in in comparison to the basis. Again, there could have been a problem that we could not figure out with the TNT. I will end this story saying that Jcbtubes bought the 2500. After what was heard, he would have been foolish not to.
This is no attempt to put down the TNT. It has such a great reputation, I would never be so foolish to degrade this TT with such a great standing among many audiophiles.

Twl's learned response is instructive as usual, but fails (perhaps out of necessity, given the context) to address two of the fundamentals I was attempting to point out above: A) Rwd apparently is not happy with *either* a low-compliance Lyra *or* a medium-compliance Benz in this arm, and B) we still do not know what it is *sonically speaking* that makes him unhappy, other than his set-up's observable performance on a test-record's anti-skating track, something which Harry Weisfeld would probably tell you to expect with his arm. So we know that changing arms could improve performance on that test track, but what of the sound? We have no way as yet to intelligently proceed in the only area that really matters (and still don't know about the phonostage and cables). I will continue to stick around this thread to learn what I can from those who possess more experience than I, but find it frustrating when help is requested without providing needed specificity and detail, and am uncomfortable with the idea of change for change's sake, or seeing someone, with the best of intentions, basically blowing with the breeze depending on what others say, based as it must be so far upon imcomplete information provided.

Zaikesman, there is some information from Rwd's previous threads, that is at play here. He is having a problem with the JMW and the Helikon, as a combo. The Benz is not a problem, as I see it. From his previous threads, he has identified the JMW/Helikon matchup to be less than ideal. Apparently, he would rather switch arms, than the cartridge. So this is what this discussion is revolving around. The latest discussion on TTs, relates to a new question he posed about whether he might change TTs also, when he is making this move. I think he needs as much input as possible, because this is a major move for him, and alot of money is at stake. This is the time to strike at the heart of the matter, so he can get the best combo, the first time out.

RWD, as I mentioned before, I am also using a Helikon with a JWM-10.5 on an Aries. While I also had trouble tracking the same antiskate bands on the HiFi News test record, I honestly have no desire to switch arms or cartridges. I couldn't be happier with the sound of the Helikon. For that matter I am also fond of the JMW -- particularly since swapping arm tubes, and thus cartridges, is so easily accomplished. I also have a mono Helikon, which is an absolutely amazing cartridge. By far, I get the best sound in my listening room when playing mono records with the mono Helikon. That I can so easily swap between cartridges is a HUGE plus.

I understand that you can swap arm tubes easily enough with the Graham as well. I am not sure if you can do so with the non-unipivot arms. If your listening tastes lean heavily towards classical, jazz, or 60's rock, then you may want to consider leaving yourself open to swap cartriges in the future.

It is my understanding that true mono cartridges, such as the mono Helikon, will soon be available from other manufacturers. I believe that you can now special order a true mono version of Grado cartridges from the Sonata model on up. Benz will also be coming out with one -- possibly a mono ACE.

Jumping back to the stereo Helikon -- prior to acquiring that cartridge I used two different Clearaudio cartridges; first the $1200 Sigma and then the $1600 Clearaudio Victory. Both tracked the HiFi News LP antiskate tracks better than my stereo Helikon -- and yet neither approached the Helkon's ability to get out of the way of the music.

IMHO I think there are better places that you can spend your money on than a new arm or table. The first thing that comes to mind is a Vibraplane (makes a HUGE difference) -- and from there a second arm tube and a Helikon mono.

That's just my two cents. I hope it helps.

Ken

Hi All...sorry for a brief delay (busy at work)...I would like to answer all...Zaikesman.....you make some very good and valid points! I am quite happy with the "sound" of my Benz m2 and Helikon cartridges. However, I began to notice some inconsistencies with my 10.5 arm and the Helikon...so see my posts below.....

OK...I just spent 2 hours with a very knowledgeable technician trying to figure out why my new (2 months old) Helikon (regular) runs in on the lead in groove on some records. My arm is a VPI 10.5 and the tech is quite good at set up and VTA etc. We tried playing with the tonearm cable on the VPI (this is the cable connected to arm tube and the rear arm connection and is also used for anti-skate). We checked the weight, VTA, and still on some records (yes some older Mer's) even newer records..it runs in for a few revolutions or grooves. It is very annoying but does not happen at the end of the record and it plays quit nicely overall. This should be a good question for Helikon/VPI arm 'goners.

Thanks for your help!
Rwd  (Threads | Answers)
03-10-02

.....and so I believe I began to notice a problem with the anit-skate. I did some twisting of my arm cable (this is the looped cable form the arm to the junction bos for the JMW arm....and the problem was solved.
Then I switched to my Benz cartridge. When I switch cartridges I remove the complete arm wand witch also contains the counter weight and that arm cable I referred to above....so you see...the arm twist position is now gone and has to be reset. The next problem I noticed was when I viewed a Thread by Sidssp....it addressed poor anti-skate problems with the JWM arm.....see below.....

11-19-02: Rwd
Sid, I just received my Hi-Fi teat record yesterday. I will test it on my Aries/VPI 10.5/Benz M2 and then my Helikon. I will report back.

TWL...your advice clearly seems as though you have great experience in this area. We all (vinyl lovers) thank you for your candid and straight forward remarks (although we sometimes don't want to hear the truth).
Let me check my cartridges out and get back to all.
Rwd  (Threads | Answers)

Finally....TWL has been very helpful.......I am happy with the should I am getting now, but if I can IMPROVE the sound with a better tracking cartridge/arm/table........??? Why not? If the JMW arm sounds fine with bad anit-skate.....what would a Graham or Origin or Vector arm sound like??????

(I hope you can follow the older threads that I cut and pasted into this one....)