Continuation of my Thread on VPI, Basis, Origin...

Hi All...sorry for a brief delay (busy at work)...I would like to answer all...Zaikesman.....you make some very good and valid points! I am quite happy with the "sound" of my Benz m2 and Helikon cartridges. However, I began to notice some inconsistencies with my 10.5 arm and the Helikon...so see my posts below.....

OK...I just spent 2 hours with a very knowledgeable technician trying to figure out why my new (2 months old) Helikon (regular) runs in on the lead in groove on some records. My arm is a VPI 10.5 and the tech is quite good at set up and VTA etc. We tried playing with the tonearm cable on the VPI (this is the cable connected to arm tube and the rear arm connection and is also used for anti-skate). We checked the weight, VTA, and still on some records (yes some older Mer's) even newer records..it runs in for a few revolutions or grooves. It is very annoying but does not happen at the end of the record and it plays quit nicely overall. This should be a good question for Helikon/VPI arm 'goners.

Thanks for your help!
Rwd  (Threads | Answers)
03-10-02

.....and so I believe I began to notice a problem with the anit-skate. I did some twisting of my arm cable (this is the looped cable form the arm to the junction bos for the JMW arm....and the problem was solved.
Then I switched to my Benz cartridge. When I switch cartridges I remove the complete arm wand witch also contains the counter weight and that arm cable I referred to above....so you see...the arm twist position is now gone and has to be reset. The next problem I noticed was when I viewed a Thread by Sidssp....it addressed poor anti-skate problems with the JWM arm.....see below.....

11-19-02: Rwd
Sid, I just received my Hi-Fi teat record yesterday. I will test it on my Aries/VPI 10.5/Benz M2 and then my Helikon. I will report back.

TWL...your advice clearly seems as though you have great experience in this area. We all (vinyl lovers) thank you for your candid and straight forward remarks (although we sometimes don't want to hear the truth).
Let me check my cartridges out and get back to all.
Rwd  (Threads | Answers)

Finally....TWL has been very helpful.......I am happy with the should I am getting now, but if I can IMPROVE the sound with a better tracking cartridge/arm/table........??? Why not? If the JMW arm sounds fine with bad anit-skate.....what would a Graham or Origin or Vector arm sound like??????

(I hope you can follow the older threads that I cut and pasted into this one....)

Rwd, I think that looking at your situation the way that you are is very commendable. You are looking at moving toward the best sound that you can get, without "clinging" to any one particular item. This is the way to get the best out of your system. If I found another TT, arm, or cart that I could afford, that gave me better performance than what I have, I'd jump on it in a New York second. And then I'd tell everybody on here about it.

I recognize that there are different opinions on what you should do. I am only offering my opinion based upon what I know. There is more than one way to "skin a cat". The things I recommend are from my point of view, on the best sound that I know of. But, certain things are "written in stone" also. If you have a good working knowledge of the "written in stone" things, you can make your own judgments based on the good foundation. I tried to make some of these available to you so you could be as informed as possible on the subject. Ultimately it is your decision on what you do.

My personal belief is that tonearm stability is of paramount importance with low-compliance cartridges. Also cartridge/arm mass matchup is critical. Sufficient lateral mass is crucial. Rigidity, anti-resonance, and bearing precision is vital. Without ALL of these factors properly matched, you will not achieve maximum performance from a low-compliance cartridge. Yes, they will work if not perfectly matched, which you have found out, but they will not work as intended, and that is where alot of discussion comes into play, because some people think that just because a cartridge is working in their arm and sounds good, that it is doing all it can. This is clearly not the case. Much closer attention to all the particulars is required to extract the full extent of the arm/cartridge capabilities. And this is where we are at, isn't it? So you must be diligent in pursuing all the data possible to arrive at the best combination. Only then can you determine which cartridge sounds best, or which arm, or which combinations. Without that, you are making decisions based on a somewhat reduced sonic performance level, that is provided by a less-than-ideal matchup, and thus the conclusions will be flawed. I am of the opinion at this time, that you aren't yet aware of just how much that Helikon is capable of. It hasn't been allowed to perform at its best. To hear it at its best, you must put it into the proper carriage, which is what we are looking at.

In addition, you must remember, that an arm can only provide what the TT will allow, and there is room above the Aries for improvement, so even if you get the perfect arm for the Helikon, you will still not be hearing it at its maximum. All aspects must be considered as individual parts, and as a total system. The Helikon is good enough to be sitting on the world's best TTs, and be quite at home there. As you improve your TT, you will hear even more from your Helikon, that you didn't even know was available from it. If it is in the right arm.

Thanks Rwd and Twl for your clarifications. Let me just state for the you-know-what, that I personally find Harry Weisfeld's (VPI) advocacy of the supposed non-necessity for a proper anti-skate control to be, shall we say, non-convincing (as a point of theory, that is, never having used the VPI 'arm). To my mind, he should either: A) Declare that in his philosophy of record playback, anti-skating is a spurious concern, which he will not be addressing in his designs, period; or B) Acknowledge that skating is a real force which needs to dealt with in a predictable manner, and provide a calibrated control to allow this adjustment to be performed in the normal fashion. But simply opining that skating is a spurious concern - and therefore superfluous to correct for (or that the cure is worse than the disease) - but then turning around and saying that if you wish, you can accomplish the adjustment equally as well by futzing with the twist and the angle of the tonearm leadout wires, strikes this groove-surfer as a decidedly disingenuous and unsatisfactory solution. And it seems obvious one that doesn't work very well. So whatever other virtures his design may possess, or however good it may sound, if I were in the market for an 'arm in this range (and here is where I have to admit my de facto disqualification from being taken too seriously in this debate!), I would be looking elsewhere. But that's just me. :-)

Id' like to close this thread by saying "thank you " to you all for your kind advice, especially TWL.
I plan now to do some research on more TT's and arms and cartridges...and I WILL get back to you when I have decided which way to go. You probably will know 'cause I'll be posting more questions in the future.