Highly Polished wire????

Thanks again, Dan and Craig. I can think of no one on this site more knowledgeable than Garfish.

As far as wire purity goes, I have to admit that I also find myself falling into the trap of being drawn into a product which offered 6 - 9s (99.9999%) purity over one that did not. One thing that I will raise at this point is, are we really sure we are buying wire that is actually that pure?

I am sure that the wire manufacturers will jump right up, and come at me hot and heavy, but I recall a small wire manufacturer throwing down the gauntlet. He challenged any company advertising their wire's purity to be over 99.99% or 99.999%(I apologize for not remembering which one) to prove it. I don't know what carrot he dangled, but I don't think anyone stepped up to the plate.

His assertion was that a scientist let him know that the analysis(X Ray Diffraction or EDAX[also X Ray) used could do no better than the figure he was claiming. While I have run these types of tests(as well as ICP, flame spectroscopy, SEM, TEM), I am surely not an expert. I will say that I might side with this opinion. This type of equipment is not as hallowed as the real world thinks it is.

What I mean is that there are a lot of curious results that come out of them. We always joked about it. As an aside, one of our biggest laughs ever was at the expense of our useless PHD Analytical Chemist. He ran the Analytical Department, we only ran tests here and there. But, we were under the same director, and attended the same bi - weekly status meeting.

Anyway, one day he presented his results of his analysis on the cermet pencils(we mark substrates with them, as they don't burn out in even a 980 degree C furnace - but will above 1100 C). The X Ray Analysis said that the cermet pencil markings were 55% rhodium. Rhodium was the most expensive of the 8 precious metals at the time, probably still is. The pencils were $0.50. Well, we all fell off our chairs with laughter. However, this guy's pride and blind faith in his equipment was way over the top. He refused to back off this assertion.

Of course, being the joker I am, I proposed that we shut down as a company, order as many cermet pencils we could afford, and go into the precious metal reclamation business. A $0.50 investment would probably yield maybe an ounce of rhodium. At $7000/ounce at the time, we thought we could live off of that. Even the company's owner got involved, asked me to draw up a proposal. Guess you had to be there...

The point I am taking far too long to make is that like amps that feature 0.005% distortion, things sometimes look a lot better on paper.

If anyone is that interested in buying this ultra high purity wire, while we will get hosed, we don't have to get killed. AudioQuest FP-6, used in cables such as Midnight speaker cable used this kind of wire. They advertised something like 99.99997% pure, or is that FPC?(which was even higher). They claim their newer stuff is even much better, due to the Perfect Surface Copper. Just buy some Midnight(it's 10 gauge - and quite reasonable these days), and you should have all the wire you need to do a lot of jobs

I don't know... I use AQ Midnight on my woofers, and to be honest, I find the Coincident CST 1.0 I use to my mids/tweeters to be very much superior. Especially, when I switch them. Even my father, the ultimate electrician/technician/EE cynic had to admit that the two wires sounded different.

From personal experience, products from Audio Note are as good as things get. But, we are forced to judge them with our ears rather than our eyes. Kondo - san doesn't make things for gearheads, unless they like to brag about the 75 pounds of silver in an amplifier's transformers. If 4 - 9s purity is good enough for him, it's definitely good enough for me.

My thanks to him for the Audio Note solid silver RCA plugs I have. Fantastic.

Trelja - the manufacturer who challenged the audio community to prove the purity of their wire over 99.99% is Silver Audio

The rest of the story goes like this:
The shameful practice of claiming ridiculous and completely impossible levels of silver purity by various "high-end" audio cable companies has gone on long enough. Silver Audio formally challenges ANY high-end audio cable company claiming to use greater than 99.99% pure silver to PROVE their claim by making available, a notarized copy of their certification analysis including the name and location of the INDEPENDENT laboratory as well as the type of testing method that was used.

When we demanded proof from our FORMER vendor of their claim (to us) of "five-nines" pure (99.999%) silver, they were unable (and unwilling) to provide it. When another potential vendor claiming "six-nines" pure (99.9999%) stopped communicating with us after we demanded proof from them as well, that was when we became very suspicious that claims of six and even "seven-nines" (and still higher!) were nothing but blatant marketing fraud. In some cases, honest ignorance appears to be the reason behind some claims of ultra-high purity. In most cases however, desperation for a unique selling point is obviously the motivation!

In two years of dealing with scores of the same testing labs that certify metal purity for the aerospace and medical industries (where purity REALLY matters) we find over and over again the same result: There is NO testing method, not even ICP mass spectrometry, and most importantly, no clean room or handling procedure capable of reliably and repeatedly assaying any element beyond 99.99% pure. Even the silicon used in the semi-conductor industry (by some of the most critical and sensitive equipment in the world) cannot be assayed for purity beyond 99.99%! Some audio companies have, perhaps only naively, tested their metal only for gas impurities (oxygen) which is expressed in parts per million (ppm) and apparently tried to then express this figure as a percent of purity (by weight or volume?)! This conversion makes no sense and even if it did, the real contaminants of silver are not oxygen, but the trace elements of iron, copper, phosphorus and silicon!

Silver Audio does not purchase any lot of silver that does not test to 99.99% pure ("pure" silver is often less than 99.99%). Each lot is certified by an independent lab for ALL trace impurities by weight, DC resistance and ductility. The certification for each new lot is notarized and provided to Silver Audio and is available to anyone who requests it, though it is intended for our OEM customers who buy our wire. The only aspects of purity that we pay some attention to, since they MIGHT account for some performance difference, are the relative levels of silicon and copper. Otherwise, what really matters (and is measurable) is the method by which the wire is drawn and to what final temper. Silver Audio does use a very simple (but to our knowledge unique) trick in conjunction with well maintained, very high tolerance diamond dies to ensure an exceptionally smooth, dense, and clean final product. Otherwise, the lesson here is that what really matters is the cable design and how it is executed, not whether the conductors are 1/10,000 of one percent less pure than those of another brand of cable!

Hmmm Interesting... Also from Silver Audio's website..

"Silver Audio is therefore thrilled to offer the solder-less, TopLine WBT locking RCA connector as an option for the 4.0s and 6.0s. WBT is universally regarded as the Rolls Royce of Audio connectors and their model 0108 represents the top of their line. This cost-no-object connector features the most powerful locking mechanism in the business and is precision machined in West Germany to exacting tolerances of <2/100 mm! The base metal is an extremely conductive, proprietary alloy based on over 99.996% pure copper....."

Maybe copper can be more than 99.99% pure.

Bwhite and Dan, I thank you profusely for your research.

It's no wonder that it was Silver Audio was the company I was referring to, without referring to them. They are one of my favorite audio cable manufacturers, and I now remember reading this discourse in a past visit to their website.

So there, a no BS statement on wire purity. From a genuine guy, Max. I agree, certifying purity of better than 4 - 9s is either a company who is misinformed, or just following along with others touting 6 - 9s to keep up with the Joneses.

It seems as if Audio Note and Silver Audio are both in agreement in their assertion that drawing the wire is the critical step. I would still be sure to use a suitable organic solvent, to ensure removal of any contaminants along the lines of oil from ones fingers, the machinery, or the like.

If I can toot the horn of a manufacturer, I must say that in my experience and opinion, Silver Audio's cables are as fine as I have encountered. I have personally come across their Silver Bullet and Hyacinth interconnects, and recommend both to anyone who is interested in finding out what really good silver cables sound like. Liquid, detailed, natural. I would love to pick up their Symphony speaker cables, but a power amp is a bigger need for me right now.

Couple of thoughts
Trelja I think that the ones that normally claim so much digits are not versed in significant figures and over use their calculators.....
Seems that sometimes a certain methodology is discussed here this goes to extents where sometimes it looses contact with reality an example here you can get polishing materials that they reduce their "grit" as you use them like polishing paste so you end up with way better finish than the original range might have suggested.
As for sanding paper, I think it´s pretty much widely known that 180 grit provides way lesser a finish than say 400 or 600. Well if you do your homework you can find in automotive refinish supply stores grit 1000 or even 1200 if interested and get a better finish yet or you can go the polishing paste route as well.
And if polishing is such an imperfect process not worth doing just imagine how they can get the polished mirrors for telescopes that provide so interesting images of far distant objects, doesn´t that ring a bell?
Regards