Need help picking budget Turntable

Colitis, when you compare different tonearm counterweights on your tonearm in controlled conditions - making sure the wiring is the same, the 'table is the same and so on - you are conducting an empirical/scientific experiment. This is what the audio hobby is. When I ask for empirical evidence of the negative contributions of the spring in an RB300, I am asking for someone to take the trouble to find out if it is really resonating, instead of just assuming it is. There's no difference between this request and someone asking which is the best turntable: we are both looking for experience, and this too is what the audio hobby is. I didn't want to offend you, but this hobby is also about questioning, or things like the Kerry counterweight wouldn't exist (in this case hobbyists questioned Rega's design). By buying all these mods, you question Roy Gandy. And so I questioned your statement that the RB250 was categorically superior to the RB300. At the moment my system is in a transitional state, and so all my high-end 'tables sound bright right now, and my mid-fi one sounds just right. Does this mean that the mid-fi one is better? No, just that my preamp is bright, and favours the rolled-off high frequencies of the lesser 'table. And thanks for the heads-up on Herbie's mat, now this'll open up yet another can of worms...

Johnnantais, I bet there is a return policy regarding the mat from Herbie's, if it is not what you want. That would allow for trying in your own environment. I still use the "Non-Felt" mat, even though some like Herbie's better, and no static cling.
We are dealing with different choices, all of which can give pleasure. None of the choices is an irreversible mistake.
After you eventually get your choice of vinyl playback system up and running, please post in this discussion thread know how it all turns out.

Good points Johnnantais, I guess I misperceived the true intention of your comments. I do understand the variables involved of a controled experiment. Do you have a 250 you could test? Just curious, you seem to have been in this longer than I have(I am 30). I did get the Sota to give me the bass I had, it was VTA after all.

Colitas, glad to hear you are getting the bass you've been looking for. As to the Sota, it is a beautiful 'table and extremely well engineered. How does it sound? Is it good at rhythm? I ask as I do collect record-players when funds allow and I may look into this. I believe that a "high-end" 'table which doesn't get the rhythm is no more than a paperweight. I'm a sucker for wood, superficial I know.

And yes, I do have access to both a Rega RB300 and RB250 re-wired in precisely the same way (by me) but I have not yet taken the rather large trouble to transfer them from 'table to 'table and so on (as on my home-mades this means total dismantlement), and was hoping that someone else did. I may do this in the future. But with my Rega RB300 I get sound which is so spectacular on my home-made 'table that I question the need for anything better...though I will eventually cave and buy the Kerry counterweight. Like you, I use a Grado Platinum on this, as again this gives such good sound I question the need for anything better (though I do have cartridges which are better in various respects), and there's that spooky clarity (due to the physical design/materials) as well as hair-raising intensity this cartridge gives in the mid-band which blows my mind. This cartridge is one of the few which shows progress is being made. People have to stop thinking in terms solely of detail and consider other aspects of sound, primarily timing.

I tend to compare new 'tables more with older, less-detailed and now "surpassed" 'tables to see if the old 'tables can teach me anything, and I find that the Connoisseur BD1, for instance (which can be found quite commonly for $30), always gets the music right. It was commonly used by most classical FM stations in the early '70s. It used a peripheral belt (around the platter) before any other, suspended the motor from a single solid plinth by a rubber cradle before Rega did, and used a clever low-torgue system for the motor drive. This thing makes all records sound good, even if it does not scale the heights of detail (it is surprising what it can do in this regard, however, when you look at it). And it makes all cartridges I've mounted on it so far sound very dynamic. Maybe I'll mount the Grado on it to see what happens...hmmmm....I regularly take sabbaticals from the "high end" (which I put in quotes since so much expensive equipment sounds like crap, makes no music), and then just listen to records on something like my Connoisseur for a year, or an Elac, or an old Ariston, all of which are very musical, and all of which actually gave me more musical pleasure than my "high-end" players!....Perhaps it is time for another sabbatical...This is tremendous fun, and cheap, try it!

And Listener57, thanks for your input: two of my "high-end" 'tables require no platter mat, but one does, and then there's my Connoisseur, which I'd love to tweak, fun, fun (and easy with this 'table, like the Regas)...I'm also considering the Boston Mat1, and will probably end up buying one of each, as I continue to buy old classic 'tables when I see them...As to my system, I need a new preamp, and am considering everything from the NAD C160 (for its musicality, switchable MM/MC, and remote-control) to various high-end pieces, tubed and solid state. My Connoisseur, for instance, has taught me that expense does not translate into musicality, and something tells me the NAD might be something special...Then again...

Johnnantais, the Sota is presents a better backdrop for the music. I finally can get Mile's on "Bitches Brew" to come in clear. There are some really long notes on that album that always test the upper range of a table/cartridge. Timing? hmmm Well my Eagle's "Hotel California" does sound good. Especially the part that gcuts off to dead silence. I do not have a stoboscope and timing disc, yet. So I have been going by ear. It does seem to swingg from Coltrane to Pink Floyd to classical guitar(john Mclaughlin). i do find myself tapping my toes, and banging my head (all signs of god swing to me). Yes, I am a sucker for wood too, so that's a plus. Thanks for the budget players list, I always could use more players my self, Kitchen, bedroom, car (just kidding, even though I have seen one on E-bay). I believe the tonearm needs a veil lifted i.e. the re-wire. What would you recommend? Cardas or Discovery? Or other?