Cable vs. Electronics: biggest bang for the buck

Bwhite wrote: "If a cable noted as "inferior" sounds better than one deemed "superior", wouldn't that make the inferior cable superior in this instance?"

Not usually. If there is a weak link an a system, "tone control" cables can often compensate, but you will never achieve the clarity and focus of a system where the cables sound like no cables at all.

The goal should be to tune your system first so that it sounds live and dynamic when the connectors are butted directly to one another (no cables at all). Only then can you determine which cables are actually superior. These superior cables that do not change the sound that was achieved when the connectors were butted together.

Audioengr - butting connectors together in a system is not possible. Any imaginary result or benefit of having no cables is pure speculation and therefore irrelevant.

There must a be conductor of some sort connecting the components together. Even in an integrated product, there is wire which connects each module. And we all know that speakers do not hook directly to the back of our amps.

Each component (good or bad) has a sonic signature. There is always a need for tone control of sorts to acheive the optimal results. Heck... each module within a component has a unique sonic signature which changes as a signal propogates through the component - are these tone controls too? If so are they bad? Should I imagine music as if there was no analog output stage or power supply in my CD player so I can get a better idea of what superior clarity and focus sounds like?

When I change the caps in my CD player or add a silver wound transformer to my preamp, am I just adding a tone control?

If we go back to an earlier post I made which said,

Its the "end result" or the final sonic signature of the component that really matters - how it gets there should be mostly irrelevant to the listener.

Then we can better understand my position that superior and inferior are relative to the application.

If the Linn CD12 CD player uses crappy wire internally but sounds awesome, is it a bad CD player? Would changing the crappy wire to "superior" wire inside the player actually improve the sound...? That's doubtful unless other things were changed to compensate for the addition of the "superior" wire.

Similarly if a system lacks midrange presence, weight or body it is not going to be fixed necessarily with a cable that measure good. It could... but it might not.

The best is simply what sounds the best, tone controls are everywhere and nothing is truly superior unless it sounds the best in the application in which its being used.

Okay.. I just went to a couple websites which I knew had Inductance and Capacitance specifications listed for their cables. Interesting enough, the cheapest cable in this list has the closest measurement to the most expensive - which is recognized as a "reference" cable and not typically considered inferior.

So what does it mean?

TMC Yellow Label ($300 1m pair)
Inductance 0.059 µH/ft
Capacitance 23.40 pF/ft

Empirical - Holophonic-2S ($419 1m pair)
Inductance .72µH
Capacitance 10.3pF

Nordost Valhalla ($3300 1m pair)
inductance 0.055uH/ft
capacitance 22.0pF/ft

Harmonic Tech Pro Silway ($359 1m pair)
Inductance 0.43 uH / ft
Capacitance 32 pF / ft

My brain instantly reacts with "Electronics" but on further reflection I can recall many instances where cables made a bigger difference (for better or worse) than electronics. I think Sean hit upon something. Is the question being asked of someone starting from scratch or upgrading? I guess it all depends on the paritcular circumstances and goals.

Bwhite wrote:
"Heck... each module within a component has a unique sonic signature which changes as a signal propogates through the component - are these tone controls too? If so are they bad?"

No, the gain and buffering stages in components add a little noise, but they do not act as tone controls. If they did, it would sound like a boom-box.

"If the Linn CD12 CD player uses crappy wire internally but sounds awesome, is it a bad CD player?"

No, it sounds good because the wires are so short.

"Would changing the crappy wire to "superior" wire inside the player actually improve the sound...?"

Might, but the improvement would be infinitesimal.

"Similarly if a system lacks midrange presence, weight or body it is not going to be fixed necessarily with a cable that measure good."

True, the offending component must be eliminated.

"The best is simply what sounds the best, tone controls are everywhere and nothing is truly superior unless it sounds the best in the application in which its being used."

I disagree. Until you have heard a superior system where there are no "weak links", one that is wired with truly low-loss IC's and speaker cables, you will not know what I am talking about. This "tone-control" mentality is what makes it really difficult to get an even playing field to compare cable performance.