Cable vs. Electronics: biggest bang for the buck

Bwhite wrote:
"Heck... each module within a component has a unique sonic signature which changes as a signal propogates through the component - are these tone controls too? If so are they bad?"

No, the gain and buffering stages in components add a little noise, but they do not act as tone controls. If they did, it would sound like a boom-box.

"If the Linn CD12 CD player uses crappy wire internally but sounds awesome, is it a bad CD player?"

No, it sounds good because the wires are so short.

"Would changing the crappy wire to "superior" wire inside the player actually improve the sound...?"

Might, but the improvement would be infinitesimal.

"Similarly if a system lacks midrange presence, weight or body it is not going to be fixed necessarily with a cable that measure good."

True, the offending component must be eliminated.

"The best is simply what sounds the best, tone controls are everywhere and nothing is truly superior unless it sounds the best in the application in which its being used."

I disagree. Until you have heard a superior system where there are no "weak links", one that is wired with truly low-loss IC's and speaker cables, you will not know what I am talking about. This "tone-control" mentality is what makes it really difficult to get an even playing field to compare cable performance.

Bwhite wrote:

"Interesting enough, the cheapest cable in this list has the closest measurement to the most expensive - which is recognized as a "reference" cable and not typically considered inferior."

The one thing that is not mentioned is the dielectric absorption. Even if the capacitance is equal, this will make a big difference. Besides, have you compared all of these cables head-to-head? I believe you will find that the lowest capacitance cables always sound the best. Also, the specs you mention are for the shielded Empirical cable which has half the capacitance of any competitor:

Empirical - Holophonic-2S ($419 1m pair)
Inductance .72µH
Capacitance 10.3pF

the unshielded version is actually much better at 3.8 pF/foot. What makes you think that the Valhalla sounds better than the Holophonic?

Just because they advertise in Stereophile does not make them superior.

Cable-butting is obviously unrealistic, but it makes the point that whatever the sound is like with no cables, the best cables shuld approach this sound.

Audioengr - you are totally overlooking the fact that each module in a component DOES add a sonic signature - maybe the gain and buffering stages do not but can you honestly say that two different analog output stages on CD players or two different power supply designs will sound the same?
and that neither of these change the sound of a component?

As for the Linn CD12 sounding good as a result of short wires.... That's bologna too. What about the PC boards inside? I bet those sound great!

Cable butting... that's funny. Totally impossible and completely impossible to truly "imagine" what the final sound would be.

I think my system has nearly no weak links - perhaps your cables will make it have NO weak links. Do you think my AudioNote Kondo KSL is the weak link? Or my NBS Statement?

Bwhite, I think you are missing Audioengr's point about the various modules within a component not being tone controls. Correct me if I'm wrong Audioengr, but just because a module may add a small amount of noise or sound different from a similar module in another brand of component, it doesn't mean that the modules are acting as tone controls. Afterall, there is more measurable and unmeasurable differences in sound than just tonal balance. As we all know, the final "sonic signature" consists of many other audible elements, such as dynamic contrasts and shadings and a lack of distortion, to name but a few.

Also, Audioengr didn't say that the Linn CD12 sounds good because it uses short wires. He said that when wires are as short as the Linn's, their quality is practically irrelevant. This seems logical and I basically agree. I have found in my own experience, however, that improving even small lengths of wire in a component can sometimes yield significant results, such as when I replaced the cheap input and output wire in my old Adcom GFA-555 power amplifier with some custom 22g pure silver wire in a teflon jacket some years back. I suppose it depends on whether you use the better wire in places where it can affect the component's sound.

One of the problems we all have is that until we find the most "neutral" cable we can afford, we cannot hear whether the rest of our system has any additional weak links. Of course this is a "chicken and egg" problem, but is nevertheless true.