"Trickle up" theory


I notice that while all my cheap 'tables time well, many expensive ones do not. I'm tired of this "trickle-down" crap the audio press feed us, thus implying that all the more expensive equipment is intrinsically superior to the budget equipment, and in the process training us to want all that expensive equipment which is so "superior." The fact of the matter is, that most budget equipment gets the music right, if with various distortions (for instance my sister's cheap Sony ghetto-blaster always makes me want to dance), and that what is actually needed is "trickle up", a preservation of the essential timing of music which budget components so often get right. I am not saying that all high-end equipment is crap - some, like Conrad-Johnson, excel at this musical magic - but the fact is a large number of high-end manufacturers need to examine what makes the budget equipment so musical (that magic which came from the first quality budget components which got us hooked on this hobby in the first place), and apply it to their cost-no-object creations! We need that musical magic to go along with all that tonal correctness and detail. Raise your hands all those who bought expensive equipment only to end up missing their cheaper components. My only purpose in writing these things is to advance the sate of the art, by encouraging a re-examination of the way we think about things. Looking at things from different angles is how to gain the fresh outlook needed for new ideas, and an improvement of the art. And also ensure that the next peice I buy will have the magic first, and all the audiophile goodies after.
johnnantais
If I listen to a state of the art system and my toe doesn't start tapping and my knee beebopping, I know something is wrong. This was a common occurance in years past at high end showrooms. Today, I experience this less and less. Of course, it is about PRAT or whatever you want to call it.

When I must put on my critical listening ears for setting up a new piece or for evaluation sessions I'm not enjoying myself. I find concentrating too much on all the details takes me away from the music. Sometimes though, I find I can't concentrate on the details and get swept away with the music. That's when the magic is happening. It happens more frequently these day than in days past. So, I'm both agreeing and disagreeing with you. I believe that the potential to put together a SOTA system that retains the basic attributes you alude to is higher today than at any time before.

This thread hasn't gotten into the good and the bad of the high end component world. I'll offer some recommendations for gear that is world class and keeps the soul of the music intact. I don't know for sure but I think these pieces could be inserted in nearly any system and retain these characteristics. They are: Berning amps, Supratek preamps and Ridge Street cabling.

I'd like to thank Vetterone for introducing me to these lines. The Supratek is simply to die for. Biggest bang for the buck piece I've listened to in over 35 years in this hobby.
Lugnut, tell me more about the Supratek, price and so forth and sites where I might read a review. I both agree and disagree with you as well, as the experience of walking into a high-end shop and being forced to sit down and enjoy the music is as elusive as ever, at least in my experience. Of course, it does happen, as it did recently when an ASL Tulip amplifier was driving a pair of Oskar Heil air-motion loudspeakers, which simply swept me away. To get back to the fun aspect, I'm looking forward to trying out the Bottlehead preamp. Maybe you're right after all, and things are getting better. But I still think that cheaper items can teach us something, and certainly the automatic quality-connected-to-money thing is still very prevalent, if only in the form of the constant "trickle-down" articles out there, about pieces of equipment which on audition simply doesn't get the Prat. So what exactly is trickling down? I've suggested it before and I will suggest it again: I'm beginning to suspect that "neutrality" is in fact in many cases a colouration in disguise, a stripping of the music (but not always!) from the information. And don't forget the Supratek info! Now we're getting somewhere.
Perhaps "simpler" really can be "better" and the overcomplication of some expensive items can introduce more problems than it solves.

Many older portables and car systems used single-driver speaker systems with no crossovers. Maybe that had something to do with it. We can see that multi-way speaker systems may extend the frequency range and some IM distortion profiles, but do they sound as coherent as single-driver systems? I think not, in many cases.

Many audiophiles have been touting "short signal path" for years, but many others ignore the idea. Maybe that has something to do with it. Hi-tech solid state amps with high power can certainly play loud and deliver deep bass slam. But do they sound like the simple tube SET designs, which are known for their "magic"? In many cases, they do not.

As far as idler-wheel technology is concerned, if you like it then use it. I feel that the vibration path from the motor to the platter is too direct, and rumble(and other vibration nasties) can become problematic. This is the main reason that it is no longer used on modern hi-end tables. Perhaps if you listened to some of the better belt-drive turntables, you'd find that belt drive can be just fine for timing(at least Linn thought so), while achieving a lower level of rumble and better detail retrieval.

I have always been a proponent of good value for dollar on this website, and laud any movement by members in that direction. However, it cannot be construed that there is no advantage in buying some expensive items. There are some very expensive audio items that will outperform any lower priced over-achiever. And if the buyer percieves that performance level to be what he wants, then he is quite right to purchase it for his system.

For my own system, I have found that "upper middle" level components will generally satisfy my needs, with a healthy dose of DIY sprinkled in to ease the budget.
Johnantais,
See the thread "Preamp Deal of the Century" for lots of commentary, both pro & con, on Supratek.

Spencer
Twl deserves a big thanks for his post. In part, his references to his Berning amps (Micro ZTOL & Holy Grail) were influential in Vetterone's purchase of the ZH270's. He also speaks wisely about crossover free drivers.

Regarding the Supratek line of preamps there is a thread here at Audiogon about "The best preamplifier deal of the century" or something similar. It has over 600 posts. A Syrah, which has a phono stage that will handle ANY cartridge, runs about $2600 plus shipping from Austrailia. This price includes a remote. Maybe someone would be kind enough to post the link to this thread. The website can be found at www.supratek.biz.

I really enjoy my own system because it excells at providing enjoyment with the vast majority of my software. I don't suffer from the "can't stand the recording quality of that LP" syndrome. By inserting the Supratek preamp and the Ridge Street cables into my system all the previous attributes were retained BUT the realism (insert all the audiophile language you want) took a quantum leap beyond anything I could have imagined.

In fairness I must say that there are probably a handful of cable manufacturers of the caliber of Ridge Street, and together these folks may be responsible for much of the improvement I'm hearing in general. I've never been one to praise high priced interconnects until this revelation. It's real and hopefully will trickle down to the average DIYer someday.

Some of the benefits of high priced stuff can be enjoyed by a handy DIYer. Sistrum platforms are wonderful pieces. Making your own, well designed racks and incorporating their Audio Points and Micro Bearing material is a logical route for the frugal minded audiophile to take. Some discussion regarding design of home made pieces that would reap the rewards of using the points and bearing material would be appropriate. Perhaps Twl would provide a primer for such a project.

Anyone have any experience with Transcendent Sound OTL amp kits? These seem to be worthy of consideration and fall within my humble finances.