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"Trickle up" theory

I notice that while all my cheap 'tables time well, many expensive ones do not. I'm tired of this "trickle-down" crap the audio press feed us, thus implying that all the more expensive equipment is intrinsically superior to the budget equipment, and in the process training us to want all that expensive equipment which is so "superior." The fact of the matter is, that most budget equipment gets the music right, if with various distortions (for instance my sister's cheap Sony ghetto-blaster always makes me want to dance), and that what is actually needed is "trickle up", a preservation of the essential timing of music which budget components so often get right. I am not saying that all high-end equipment is crap - some, like Conrad-Johnson, excel at this musical magic - but the fact is a large number of high-end manufacturers need to examine what makes the budget equipment so musical (that magic which came from the first quality budget components which got us hooked on this hobby in the first place), and apply it to their cost-no-object creations! We need that musical magic to go along with all that tonal correctness and detail. Raise your hands all those who bought expensive equipment only to end up missing their cheaper components. My only purpose in writing these things is to advance the sate of the art, by encouraging a re-examination of the way we think about things. Looking at things from different angles is how to gain the fresh outlook needed for new ideas, and an improvement of the art. And also ensure that the next peice I buy will have the magic first, and all the audiophile goodies after.
johnnantais
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drubin
3,275 posts
 
I went to the movies last night. Typical suburban multiplex with Dolby Digital sound. I found the music in the movie (Monster) and even in the previews (a new Bertolucci film with a lot of great 60's music), which were not in surround, to sound very good in a musically satisfying way. No treble to speak of (which may be why it sounded good), but it had a very smooth sound and the stage was spread way out. Rock music sounds great that way, better than it does on my highly resolving, detailed, extended-range home system. It got me thinking.

I don't know what they put in these movie house systems, but I imagine it's largely junk, not only by the standards of the "high end" but by the standards of John's lower-end, simple, good boogie equipment. I mean, simple, direct signal paths? I doubt it!

I'm still working this around in my mind, because I have a point to make, I'm just not sure I know what it is yet. For one thing, while I agree that many of our ultra high end systems sometimes or often seem to miss the point in important musical respects, I'm unsure about the conclusions that John is suggesting with respect to simpler systems.
ozfly
887 posts
 
Drubin, do you think it might be the sheer presence of the music? A theater has many, many speakers in an acoustically satisfactory environment? Someone had earlier referenced car stereos as posessing the musicality/PRAT/timing (your choice of terms) discussed earlier. Bass is artificially high within a car just as it is in the theater (for different reasons). Plus, there are a lot of square inches of speaker per cubic foot of space in both many cars and most theaters. High ratios of speaker surface to listening space (all else equal) might result in something good. Just a thought. Haven't really explored it at all. What do y'all think?
weiserb's avatar
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weiserb
476 posts
 
Sometimes the expensive top gear can be too revealing and non forgiving of a lot of the less than perfectly recorded source material. I have leaned towards high end tube gear with Lps and a great cd player. Also the top gear can be sensitive to a good synergy with the associated gear. Agoners know that great involving sound does not have to mean wasting money. I have found that many brands like ARC, VTL, CJ offer magical sounding gear at fair price points all very well made. They can be a steel used ! The hardest part is finding the perfect speaker as they interact with everything , especially your room.
johnnantais OP
621 posts
 
Of course synergy is crucial, good point Weiserb. As I pointed out in another thread, amount of information seems to be inversely proportional to the amount of music which survives. Our main aim should be musicality before information, but the upgrade path seems to emphasize information before musicality. This hobby is filled with pitfalls, and we forget in all the press hype that music and not information is the point. Both the press and high-end dealers seem to forget this, and in the process, lead us to think as they do. Interesting that all the companies you mention make tube equipment. I'm really beginning to like this thread! More please!
inpepinnovations1e75
395 posts
 
Its more in the recording process than in the "reproducing" process. The recording of the sounds and music is done and mixed "with the reproduction method" i.e. theatre in mind and therefore better tailored. Most theatres and their equipment are similar and therefore it is easier to mix in the recording for the results that you want.
If you could run the same mix at home on your system it might sound awfull. Many of our "high resolution" or neutral system just reflect poor recordings, not poor reproduction systems.
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