2. analog
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I finally compared CD to vinyl and...

I finally compared CD to vinyl and it was close, very close. But let me put some perspective on this first. In my main system I have an Audio Note 2.1x balanced DAC with Accustic Arts Drive 1 transport (on a Sistrum platform); this is not cheap, plus there's the digital cable and power cords. The vinyl setup I tried was the one I had back in high school and just shipped from my folks home along with some 80s music LPs. This consisted of a cheap Yamaha PF-20 TT, Signet TK4Ep cartridge, stock 20 year old interconnects, and the phono stage in my Mcintosh preamp. I took the TT to a local repair shop for a once over and all they could find wrong is that it runs about 1% fast.

Last night I relived my high school days by playing a bunch of 80s music (and realizing how bad some of it was, but who cared back then). My first impressions were that the TT was very dynamic with great bass and soundstage; it was very smooth. The music was really fun. So much for the glory days.

Today I went to Amoeba and purchased 4 LPs that I already had on CD to do a "taste test" of sorts. Here's my general thoughts...

Keith Jarrett, The Koln Concert
This LP was used. Better on LP. More natural sounding. But lots of popping.

The Shins, Chutes Too Narrow
Not my usual stuff, but some fun pop. Too close to call here.

Johnny Cash, American 4
I think I preferred the LP, but it was close. My wife preferred the LP; warmer she said. But she likes the detail of digital, seems to prefer the cleaner, sterile sound of it.

Norah Jones, Feels Like Home
The LP sounded better to me, but the CD allowed more detail to come through. very close here, slight edge to LP. But with the careful listening I realized that this album sounds compressed. My wife preferred the CD.

Back to my original point: thousands in digital equipment sounds about equal to a 20 year old TT that probably cost $125 in the day. This experience allowed me to hear how "digital" digital can sound; somewhat artificial, clean, sterile. The TT sounded somewhat soft; either it's the TT, cartridge, preamp, or I'm just hearing how "hard" CD can be. the midrange was a bit recessed, but nice, tight bass and very good, natural highs. Johnny Cashs's voice sounded very real on vinyl. In the end I'm not really sure what to make of this. Some of the LPs I bought could have been poorly mastered.

I don't see myself really getting into vinyl right now. Though most of the LPs were clean there was some popping and a few were downright dirty. CD is very conveneint and easier to store. But it's great to be able to buy used LPs for pennies and try out new music. I bought a used Norman Blake LP fpr $2 that I had been wanting to hear for some time on CD. it sounded great, but was dirty.

I'm sure I could get a better TT, cartridge and phono stage and see an improvement. A cleaning machine would help too. But I would prefer to simplify rather than complicate my system. The frustrating thing is how hard it can be (and expensive it can be) to get CD to sound relatively close to analog. I've tried SACD, but not ready to commit to that either.

For you serious analog folks, what CD players have caught your analog ears the most? I bought my Audio note DAC from a guy who was a real vinyl freak and it was the first digital that he liked.

I have some old Genesis LPs that I'll try tomorrow. A few more spins of the 80s stuff (boy, there was a distinct 80's sound). I also have some of my grandfather's classical LPs to cruise. Then I'll probably get lazy and stick to CD. I'm sure after getting away from the vinyl for a while CD will sound great again. This was a fun exercise, though, and certainly enlightening.
budrew
sogood51
2,157 posts
 
Budrew

On re-reading my post, sorry for the tone. I do think vinyl may sound better than cd in many cases, I also can understand tube lovers. My system is digital and SS but not because I think it's any better (or worse) than the other.

Many, many components on the market could make me happy when matched with my speakers of choice (this changes every 5 years or so for no reason other than change).

Your post came at a time when I was breaking in a very cheap DVD player I bought for Video only but desided to use as a cd player for the evening. This piece of crap was sounding VERY GOOD but with a little less weight than my other player.

"Weight", this is the thing that I like about vinyl, it has that thickness that 1's and o's don't seem to capture at times...drums are a good example.

That said, I still have to wonder how bad your digital must sound. My Sony XA-777 sacd player (sold it) sounded as good as vinyl on many sacd at the time I had it in my system. I do own an old TT which was pretty good in it's day (hardly ever use it). As a matter of fact, it's not even hooked up.

Dave
sean
6,231 posts
 
I think that digital and analogue can sound quite similar yet each have their own strengths. Much of what determines what sounds "better" is up to the individual recording.

Having said that, it was quite evident to anyone that listened to CD when it first came out that it was a FAR inferior format to even a decent phono system. Problem was, most people didn't have a "decent" phono system back then, so they thought CD's sounded "better". Couple this with the increased convenience of CD's and you can see where that led.

Luckily, technology and parts quality have advanced. While most of these benefits have been applied to digital technology due to the wider marketability of such, some of that has trickled down into vinyl too. As such, the gap has closed somewhat, but good vinyl that is well maintained still has an advantage. Given that the average digital system still sounds relatively "sterile" and "mechanical", most people that hear even a "fair" vinyl rig can't believe how good analogue can sound.

I know this from first hand experience as i and my immediate family members went through this several years ago. Even with hand-built DAC's using high grade parts, those noisy old "antique" records can still convey the passion and flow of music in a way that brings a smile to one's face. Given that the mass majority of digital systems only hint at this type of performance, instead giving you chopped and disected bits of info rather than a cohesive musical presentation, i can't understand what all the fuss is about. That is, unless they've tried it for themselves and found to the contrary. If such is the case, i would suggest that the vinyl gear and phono stage being used may not be quite as good as they think it is.

Obviously, this is all from my point of view based on my experience and others might / will disagree. That's the great thing about this forum. So long as one can convey their message in a meaningful manner without attacking others, we can all share and learn why we believe what we do. Sean
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budrew OP
467 posts
 
Thanks for the replys. I'm priming our new garage today and will add some comments later when there's time. Cheers!
budrew OP
467 posts
 
Last night after a full day of painting I was too tired to do anything but sit and listen to music, specifically the turntable. I'm a little more intigued now. Where should I go from here? If i wanted to explore a newer TT what would you recommend? What would put me on the next plateau to stay a while comfortably and continue to appreciate vinyl? From what I've read a record cleaning machine is also a worthwhile purchase. I would continue to use the phono stage in my preamp. So basically i would need a TT, tonearm, cartridge, cleaner. That should be it for now, right (I hope)?

I should have never listened to the TT. Now I'm off on another audio tangent!
colitas
150 posts
 
Depending on your budget! Having gone through the newbie beginnigs, I can suggest that you could build a quality system aound a fullt modded Rega 250 tonearm. I would change the endstub to a 2xtreme end stub, from Express Machining. I have tried both counterweighhts from Express and Kerry Audio. I prefer the F2 titanium counterweight from Kerry Audio(it stays closer to the pivot point of the tonearm.)You will need a VTA adjuster too, Express has a nice one too. Then upgrade the tonearm wire. Check E-bay and the Gon for the tonearm. I currently use a Sota Sapphire with the Rega, much quieter than the Rega P3 I had before.
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