Safe audiogon transactions; lowering the bar.

The following is the only way, as a buyer (and a seller), I would do business on Audiogon (especially if the product is over a $1,000):

1) Check the sellers feedback, if there is negative feedback or none at all proceed with extreme caution.

2) E-mail seller with the following questions: explanation of rating, why it does not come with obm (if no obm), why they are selling the unit, are they the original owner, and age of unit.

And, most importantly ask if they will do cod with a deposit (either you can send them a money order or you can paypal them). The amount of the deposit would be the amount of the shipping, insurance and cod charges and a little extra for their time. If these terms are not acceptable forget it. LET ME REPEAT, IF THESE TERMS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE FORGET IT. Don't get emotional and make an impulsive decision and lose your money.

3) If all checks out, ask for a phone number to call the seller at. Call and talk about audio, if they have been in the hobby a long time and are knowledgeable, chances are better that they are responsible because they probably would want to use Audiogon again in the future. If they appear to be credible send them the deposit. You've done all you could to ascertain that they are not flaky.

Of course, all of the above is discretionary, where their feedback is abundant and positive and the product is under a couple of hundred bucks you just may prefer to send them the money in advance.

Here is the five minute course in trade law...

The essentials (and the typical manifestations) of an enforceable contract are competent parties (adults), subject matter (something not illegal), legal consideration (money), mutuality of agreement (a meeting of the minds) and mutuality of obligation (duties). Contracts may be oral or written.

Ordinarily a sale occurs when the goods change hands. Businesses use FOB (freight on board) shipping point and FOB destination designations to specify the moment title passes. Insurance requires an insurable interest. You have one if the loss will cost you money to remedy.

Internet deals often involve three contracts, one each for the sale, shipping and insurance. Our sales contracts are seldom commercial ones. As such, the maxim "let the buyer beware" summarizes the rule that a purchaser must examine, judge, and test for himself.

I've never seen anything that addresses the insurance risk for items owned and shipped to a repair facility, which clearly is not the owner, and is returned to the owner from that facility. The shipper of the return item is clearly not the owner, does not have an insurable interest and insures the package for full value. On what basis does the shipper decided to settle a claim with the repair facility which shipped rather than the owner who has the damages??????

To Ulkatraz:

"And, most importantly ask if they will do cod with a deposit (either you can send them a money order or you can paypal them). The amount of the deposit would be the amount of the shipping, insurance and cod charges and a little extra for their time. If these terms are not acceptable forget it. LET ME REPEAT, IF THESE TERMS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE FORGET IT. Don't get emotional and make an impulsive decision and lose your money. "

I have a perfect and flawless feedback rating. I would NEVER accept COD, therefore, i would never have a transaction with someone making those demands. I will tell you about 2 scams. These have never happened to me but, have happened to many others before.

1. COD, crooked buyer. No offense to any FedEx drivers but, they are not bank tellers. Someone could go to their local post office and buy a $700 money order. Take that money order and color laser print multiple copies of it. Someone with just a little talent could scan it and change the serial numbers on each money order. Send the COD package to a local, or out of local Mailboxes Etc., or any other address that is not their home. Fedex comes with the package, you hand him 5 $700 money orders totaling $3500. By the time the driver Fedex's them back to the Seller and he finds out they are phoney, you could be in China.

2. COD, crooked seller. You ask for COD to protect yourself. No problem, you ordered a 100lb Krell amp for $8000, so you want some sort of protection. The crooked seller decides that his local home depot is selling 25lb cinder blocks for $5 each. Go buy 4 and pack them in the Krell box that you found outside the local hi fi shop before you posted your "for sale" ad. All packed up and ready for shipping. By the time you open the box, the driver is gone. They WILL NOT allow you to open the box and inspect it's contents before they have been paid. Once you open it and they have your money orders you are done. Time to call the FBI or sue.

There are specific details that I will not post here for fear of copy cat crooks. Needless to say any flaw in these stories has a simple answer that I will not post. These are true stories that happen everyday. For these reasons, I never do COD but, that is my choice. If I buy from someone, I check feedback, ask for a phone number and email account that isn't linked to Hotmail. As a Seller, I furnish this info to all buyers who ask. Never burned anyone and never been burned, here or on ebay.

As an additional comment on who is the owner during shipping. While Fed Ex and UPS may consider the piece yours once you pick it up, un-inspected of course, if there is anything wrong with it due, to their always delicate handling, they will settle with the shipper and it is up to you to get the money back from the shipper. So far i have had no problems with the shippers sending me the money, which is good because i have yet to recieve something from either of the above shippers where at least something wasn't damaged. For heavy objects i have found shipping by freight trucking companies is cheap and they seem to take care of things..harder to set up though..but then i digress.