MIT Love 'em or Hate 'em


Has anyone else noticed that audio stores that carry MIT think there is no better cable type and stores that don't carry MIT all think they are terrible. Is this sour grapes or is something else going on here?
bundy
Zaike, you've got it, begosh. Are you with the CIA? It's him, all of him, including his muleheadedness and his rash temper. Ha!! Always thought, he couldn't be quite real, although I liked what he said about the CAT and the Defy 7, but then, as you so wisely point out, I belong to the same family of uncles. Why? The Brits used to have a saying that went: "Bob's your uncle", which was a polite way of suggesting that you're talking bullshit. We're one big familiy, obviously, only some know it and some not.(-;
To qualify the point that Krusty the Clown is possibly uncle squared, so to speak, comes from the fact, that Bruce Brisson (MIT) and Karen Sumner, who marketed the MIT stuff for him, split up in the eighties, if I recall right. It was then, that she started Transparent. Since then Bruce hasn't been asleep, nor have the folks at Transparent. Yes they have boxes, both, but they certainly are not alike and they don't sound alike. So I am quietly pondering for myself, as I am sawing one of the $12000 MIT boxes open, to see if there's gold inside, if one of Clown Krusty's uncles might not be named BOB.
Cheers,
Very funny!!! Thanks guys for the chuckle.

Again, I think opinions on wire have less to do with technology and science than people's 1) emotional reaction to the exhorbitantly high prices of "exotic" wire, and 2) because of that emotional orientation - deserved or not - a heightened desire to apply scientific criteria to ameliorate that response (which must be directed, of course, to people who buy it). The problem with this is what some philosophers of science, namely, Kuhn and Popper, have noted as a bias that effects one's observation of results, or lack thereof. In this sense, objective criteria , due to the emotive response, become prioritized without reflection to subjectively percieved results, which even the rules of science says are determitive ("objective" criteria are also subjectively percieved, and hence, the term "objective" can be misleading, leading us to believe it has some independant validity, like a science-god out there somewhere, but that's another story...)

There are also other "scientific" assumptions that underly many scientific-based arguments that reveal still other biases, and that come out in wire vs. amp arguments because the matter configuration is different, not in a fundamental sense, but merely in appearance. Science, in its alliance with capitalism and the production of technology (science is not predominantly in the business of producing technology, but using it, as a tool, to find out truths about physical reality), has adopted amongst its acolytes an assumption that if the tool has more moving parts it must be more complex in function, i.e. complexity in matter arrangement equals complexity in function. In wire discussions, fueled by the emotive response, this comes out as technical arguments made based upon this assumption, but not disclosed because even the speaker is unaware of the underlying assumption within the presentation of his/her data (it derives from science's method of reduction of wholes into parts; allied with capitalism, better technolgy equals tools with more parts, more parts equals more complexity, more complexity dictates better subjectively percieved performance. You see the irrational cascade?).

Did Krusty do this? Maybe, I can't tell, that's what I was trying to find out (you see, Jetter, even science is a philosophy. That you don't think so may be a point of departure for self-reflection on another scientific assumption that is untrue...).

Science is a valuable tool of the mind directed towards matter and, because of that, makes great widgets (and, at its best, catalyzes awe). But it is not ultimately determitive of subjective results.

Are Krusty's technical arguments sufficient to negate the use of networks in toto? No.

Does he make a point that the technology in boxes does not justify people paying that much for them, even though he may not state this? Perhaps. But calling people stupid - the underlying emotive demeanor - and using scientific technicalities to bolster that argument is not the same issue as negating one technology from another based on scientific evidence.

Does Krusty's subjective evidence further bolster his technical argument? Yes, but as pointed out above - and of all people Krusty should understand this - his methodology appears flawed. Namely, as detlof cited, his sample is too small and not representative. This leaves only Krusty's undisclosed emotive demeanor as bias towards favoring strictly technical arguments based on complexity assumptions - or that likelihood given his silence on the inquiry of his assumptions of his method, his emotional demeanor and the insufficient sample to that methodology.

Does Krusty have a point about boxe wire? Perhaps. But it needs to be presented in a different way if it is to be successful.

Krusty, on the chuckle, you show commendable constraint. Perhaps a jumping off point to answer the last question...
Uncle Krusty
Came around the campfire from out of the night and the stranger spoke his piece straight from the hip.
He didn't first stop to analyze his audiences social/economic standing.
He didn't ask if he could be let into the circle.
He just said he didn't need no stinkin filter.

The a'goner possee
Well, they think they like that litt'l ol box, ain't ever hurt no one.
They decided that since Uncle K wouldn't discuss the box in terms of both the scientific "micro" and philosophic "macro" we oughta get him.
Their gettin ready to send Jung in after him.

Score stands
Uncle K - 9
A'goners - 4 1/2
Jetter:

Krusty is in the circle, whether he knows it or not. You're the only one who is not, and by your own choice.

Now, can someone hand me the fly swatter...
This thread was initiated by Bundy asking about MIT. Not about "networked" cables in general. How many times do I need to repeat myself? S-L-O-W-L-Y, this time for krusty. My sole point is that you are making a sweeping generalization that is as hard to substantiate as saying that all tube amps that use the same output tube sound the same. I just find that listening to a product "might" be a better way to judge, if, in fact, it sounds good or not!
If you paid attention to what I wrote krusty you would realize that I never said anything about "correction" or "compensation" or even anything about the sound of these cables!

I am open minded about products that can improve my listening experience. I just like to hear them in my system before I decide what they sound like. I have been listening to every cable that I have been able to get my hands on for a while, which is not that many, I will say. When I find one that sounds better I will buy some. I don't care if it has a "box" on it filled with bat guano, or if the conductor is made from old coat hangers, if it sounds good I will use it. I may try to understand why bat guano might sound better than bird guano. In the end it's the sound that counts. You can't judge the sound with out listening to a product. O.K.?

So krusty if you want to pony up some cash for me to rid myself of my old "crap" gear I would be happy to spend your money on a new ARC Ref2 MkII, a pair of VTM200's and some Kimber Select throughout.While you're at it I might as well let you buy me some Vandy 5's(birdseye will do nicely). I don't accept personal checks.

Now Jetter, tell me more about that sister of yours!