I meant closer "than" not "to", not that it really matters,and no 6chac I don't blink, I stare with eyes wide open, which is a sign of bad breeding, but also that doesn't matter, when you're on to Damascus and the ox lets go right beneath its tail in front of you...who was it who whished me a nice wicked end again...? AW well, Monday is a new day.....and probably it was that end of the oxen which ASA had in mind....