Out of production reference turntables

Dear Bob: The experience that you are sharing with all us ( Tks ) is true only and only if you hear both turntables with the same audio system, in the same room and with the same tonearm/cartridge combo. Other way it's only a irresponsible " fun ".
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Bob, any generalized putdown like "tuneless"......especially based on a brief, totally unqualified and nonspecific experience......begs for an 'ad hominem comment'......don't you think? if you take cheap shots you gotta be able to handle the blowback.

being critical requires specifics to be credible. are you saying that 'all' Rockport's are 'tuneless'? how brief was your experience with the Rockport? was the Rockport in a system with another tt to compare with?

in any case, you clearly know your stuff and i don't want to make a bigger deal here than is reasonable. i have a few Naim fans as friends and i mostly like what they like......but they definitely have a particular perspective on things.

as a multiple Rockport tt owner that has owned a few other tt's i certainly have my biases too.

Mike--

Fair points all. "Tuneless" was not one of my better efforts at diction!

Gotta agree on "they definitely have a particular perspective on things..." But then, everyone does... n'est-ce pas? And no, can't agree on ad hominems being justified....

Anyway, the Rockport I've heard belongs to a family friend in northern NJ. When I've heard it, the system (if I'm remembering right) was the Rockport, a Lyra Parnassus , Aesthetix Io phono preamp (among others), Levinson something or other mono's (20.6?), and more speakers than you could shake a stick at--Watt/Puppy, Sonus Faber Extremas, and so on. (I liked the Extremas the most, FWIW)

My take on the system as a whole remains the same--brilliant sonics, but not as "engaging" as others I've heard. Definitely the lowest noise floor of any TT I've heard. Substituting a Roksan TMS raised the noise floor, and diminished the sense of space and spatial separation, but improved the "engagement" factor. Granted, different arms and a different Parnassus. The TMS just sounded more....propulsive, if that makes any sense. The TMS also made it easier to tell if the players were having fun, playing together, etc. Why? I have no idea, esp. since the Rockport was clearly resolving more info.

In any event, back on thread, I'd say either the Rockport or the Goldmund would be a worthy reference table. Haven't heard the Forsell, so can't comment. And I stand by my remark on the Oracle--having owned one, it doesn't belong in the conversation.

Best,

Bob

Bob, thanks for the explaination. i now understand what you mean't. i must admit to not haveing heard a tt that is more 'propulsive' or 'revealing of the energy of a recording' than my Rockport. these issues are central to my musical enjoyment.....and i think yours too.

i also think that the Rockport gets into much more microdynamics than ANY other tt......which to me is more like 'live' music than other tt's. when you listen to the Rockport 'big events' get revealed as lot's of 'little events'. it can be 'off-putting' if your reference is your previous listening experience.

the extreme isolation of the Rockport does put more demands on the ancilary gear. if a cartridge is voiced for a tt/arm with more 'distortion' and then has 'none'.....'something' can seem missing. also, the air bearing arm does favor cartridges with low compliance......without which you do get a softening of the dynamics.

my Colibri has a very short, stiff canteliver that mates perfectly with the Rockport arm for explosive dynamics and lots of musical tension.

do you know the specific model of Rockport that you heard?

Mike, ever hear the Tube Research Labs table? If anyone has, it is probably you! :-) I know of it only in lore.