Turntable or go into SACD, Simon Yorke vs EMM Lab

Hi Raul- I agree completely with your analyisis- in it's entirety! It takes an enormous ammount of experience, time, patience and money to fully and regularly realize the FULL potential in vinyl playback. This a very specialized pursuit for extreme hobbyists. I greatly admire those with the patience to, initially set up and subsequently maintain a vinyl playback system capable of CONSISTANTLY BEATING the Meitner rig. I didn't have that level of constant dedication and, clearly, lacked the requisite knowledge to know I had a cartridge/tonearm mismatch. I guess I find the convenience and the consistent 95%+ performance of the Meitner rig (with 100% being the perfected vinyl setup)to be an acceptable concession.

I am waiting for the arrival of the Meitner DCC2 Dac/Preamp to join my recently received Meitner CDSD Transport. The preliminary reports on the performance of the CDSD suggest an improvement over the Meitnerized Philips SACD 1000, which, with the DAC 6, was my Meitner reference. If, in fact, the new Meitner gear exceeds the performance of the old- might that 5 percentile differential narrow further??

Dear Fbhifi: All in this life is a trade-off issue, and the trade-off in LP reproduction is the know-how that we have to have and the dedication for the analog system is always at full potential.
The quwstion is: what are we looking for ?, which trade-off we choose?.
If any one is looking for the best music reproduction then it has to go for the analog solution. You choose for the digital solution ( it is up to you ) and it is ok, but you have the analog solution in your hands and a very good one.
Regarding the 95% performance of the Meitner....., well this is your point of view and this issue is totally subjective, other people can think 98% or 90%, who has " the word ".
BTW, as I already told the Meitner rig is a big step on CD reproduction, but any CD digital product can and never will 100% because the limits of the CD digital ( native ) technology: 16 bits. Now if we think about 24 bits technology that is another history.
Regards and always enjoy the music.
Raul.

Wow, this thread is still going after Dgad made his move and it keeps getting better! Thanks to Dgad for asking a tough question and making a tough decision. Thanks to Ceol, Fbhifi and Rauliruegas for their extensive insights. Listeners with real knowledge and experience at this level of performance are pretty rare.

Ceol, please don't be put off by challenges from those who are merely expressing personal enthusiasms. You have opened quite a few eyes and minds on this thread, e. g., Cello's and mine.

Raul, you and I enjoy tussling on threads where the level of playback being sought or discussed is at lower levels, but on this thread I bow to your vast experience (as always) and to your uncompromising insistence on, "only the best". Like Ceol's, your posts on this thread have been authoritative and immensely educational. I'm still climbing the analog ladder and enjoying the journey. (New Triplanar VII gets mounted tomorrow, Schroeder Ref... some day!)

Cello, I'm impressed by your honest account of your friend's Meitner. Obviously I know exactly how much you love your new analog rig, justifiably of course. For you to praise the Meitner gives me renewed hope for our collection of 1000+ RBCD's, few of which have left the shelf in the last 5 years. Your Electrocompaniet certainly stuffs our little Arcam CDP, but even it can't compare with our vinyl setup, let alone yours.

Fbhifi, thanks for sharing your Meitner experiences as well. I've been thinking about them for months and you've given me even more interest. I concur with most of Rauliregas' comments on your analog rig's strengths and weaknesses. (I don't know the Dyna so I can't speak to that, but everything else Raul said echoes my experience.)

Robm321, I was able to help you out on your cartridge loading thread because I had experience. Where I lack experience, as with the sound of a Meitner, I find it more productive to read than to type. This does not mean reading uncritically or accepting all claims. Far from it. But challenging what Fbhifi heard without having heard it yourself was unhelpful and antagonistic. Rauliruegas was better positioned than you to analyze what Fbhifi heard because he's heard it himself. His analysis helped Fbhifi advance his understanding of his system. Your thoughts on the possible dead-ending of hi-rez discs by downloadable formats were insightful. That confirms the wisdom of what Ceol, FBhifi and Rauliruegas all advised, "Buy a Meitner if you want to revitalize your RBCD collection. SACD is just a bonus."

Keep the good info coming guys, thanks again.

Dougdeacon,

I can accept your criticism. I am a bit antagonistic. And I haven't heard the Meitner, but I did have a reason for jumping in on the discussion. My main point was to contrast the enthusiasm. Not just to be a prick, but because as you said the claims were emotionally charged and got to the point where it sounded like Meitner was the front end King and all other formats and front ends pailed in comparison. I had to challenge that.

If I had $12 grand laying around (which I don't) I would probably take a serious look at it EMM. I'm all for the best sound. And I do appreciate all that I have learned. This is my favorite thread right now.

Whether or not I've heard the Meitner, my main argument (which still hasn't been asnwered) is how with the limitations of RB can it sound as good or better then an analog wave (vynil) without any phase shifting tricks. Or what about other $12,000 CD players, are they not as good as the meitner? Is this a revelation or is it just excitement over a great sounding new product?

Rob

Dear friends: First tks to Dgad for give us this splendid space. Second tks Doug for your words and third a recognition to Fbhifi for his humility and maturity. I think that everyone in this thread learn many things at different levels for improve our knowledge in the music reproduction issue. Tks to everyone.
Now, Rob the today's road on RB reproduction products is: resampling, with this in mind not only the Meitner improve the sound reproduction on CD, there are other products that do the same and sound at the same level. What does this resampling? in two words: more resolution ( not more information. The info is the same: 16 bits. ). This added resolution do that the RB, now, be near the LP sound reproduction but it can't be as good or better than the analog rig ( if you put the top RB performer against a top analog system performer, this one outperform the RB. Yes, I know that in some very specials circunstances maybe the RB can sound as good of a LP, but this can be because a bad master in the LP recording but not because the RB is better, this never can be because of the technology limitations: 16 bits.
Now, the 24 bits native technology like the DVD-A ( I aggree with you Rob: the DVD-A sounds better than the SACD. I don't know why ) can be as good and can be better than the analog ( at least on theory ) because that kind of digital format not only give us more resolution but more information too, and this is the important issue.
Unfortunatelly for us music lovers/audiophiles those formats never be a reallity: There is no bussines here for the big recording companies.
So, we have to have the best we can in the analog area, it will be alive for another 100 years. I really believe it and I always do anything that I can do for support it. Yes, the RB will be alive for many many years to come and we have to support too before it happen what Rob told us.
Regards and always enjoy the music.
Raul.