Results from Beta Testers of New Formulas

Joe: I was concerned with your comments about the recovery tube being very dark / black. Seeing a cleaner surface is one thing whereas seeing "gobs of black sludge" in the recovery tubes is another. Thanks for the clarification.

As far as the discs being "ruined with the first play" if the plasticizers were being leeched out of them, that is not true. Plasticizers are used to increase flexibility. As such, removing them from any substance that makes use of them would simply result in a stiffer, more brittle material. That's why i questioned Paul as to the length of time that these records were exposed to this solution, both in terms of application and time since first applied. Given his response to those questions, one would assume that the discs themselves were still in excellent shape.

Paul: Ultrapure water can be quite aggressive depending on what it is being used on. You should read some of Jon Risch's comments about it over at AA. Jon used to work for Discwasher back when they were a force in the vinyl cleaning industry some 25-30 years ago.

It sounds like you're really onto something here and i wish you all the best should you choose to market this product. If it works as good as is being reported, you might want to think about obtaining some type of legal documentation in terms of the formulation. That is, it might not take a too much effort to reverse engineer your product if one had funds or access to a lab. Sean
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PS... I find it kind of interesting that some of the other "record cleaning solution manufacturers" haven't jumped in here to correct all of the "disinformation" that is being spread in this thread. Either they aren't aware that it exists ( and i bet that they are VERY aware of it ) or they are hoping that it will just "go away".

"Ultrapure water can be quite aggressive depending on what it is being used on. You should read some of Jon Risch's comments about it over at AA."

Oh, yeah!

I posted that it dissolved the nose grease out of my glasses! I went for a week of training at DuPont plant that outsourced the ultrapure water to this company I worked for. The guy training me told me that DuPont started using ultrapure water in their pressure washers. It simply ate them. As I said, ultrapure water will strip ions from the water, and will usually become acidic.

The use here it's just to *quickly* remove "loose stuff" from the records either as the second step cleaner and/or final rinse with the use of a vacuum machine. No big deal when compared to actually riding and constantly accelerating a little diamond chisel on the grooves...and with "stuff" in between.

I've been using just ultrapure water all this time on my Discwasher (just a few drops) and stylus and am very pleased with the results. My records stay clean with just the ultrapure water after being given my proprietary "Purple Death" deep cleansing treatment. I am concerned about the aluminum stylus cantilever being 'eaten' by the water, so I've backed off on that a bit.

Let me go! I've got to get the UHaul!!!!!!!!!

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Testers,
So do we have any accumulated learnings as to how long to leave the enzymatic on an LP during step one? I've been brushing it in for only 20 seconds or so.
Have you testers reporting good results been leaving it on for longer than that?
Just want to make sure that I don't short-change the formula through my own process.
Nonetheless, I'm already impressed with the reduction of surface noise I'm hearing, as well as much less dust accumulating on the stylus during play. The stylus is obviously riding through cleaner grooves.
One area I'm hoping for more improvement in is in elimination of ticks & pops in garage sale beater LPs. While I have heard some elimination of ticks & pops, not as much as I had hoped. Thinking longer time with enzymatic on the LP could potentially have a impact here. Thoughts? Thanks, Spencer

Spencer,
Last night, I started leaving the enzymatic on the LP ala Jphii for about a minute and a half after spreading it out, then a good scrub and vacumn. I am still amazed at how much cleaner the grooves are. The reduced surface noise and much cleaner groove also means I am not having to do my stylus cleaning regime as often since I started the testing.

I have yet to hear any kind of rolling off off highs and I am testing records I know very well. I am impressed with the levels of detail in the now clean grooves which seem to have also resulted in a much better sense of center image focus. I don't know if this is the case of center focus improvement due to cleaner grooves, or, if it's a case of percieved improvement due to greater inner detail from much cleaner grooves.

So, I apply the enzymatic, spread it out, allow it to sit for 60-90 seconds, scrub well, then vacumn for more than the usual 3 rotations (5 or 6). Next I apply the cleaner, scrub, vacumn, then place on the TT and give it a sweep with the dry carbon fiber brush before dropping the stylus into the lead-in groove.

Looks and sounds mah-vel-ous..

First, many thanks, Paul, for sending the second, larger samples.

I figured I could now afford to "waste" a little and went to my stack of unplayable-but-can't-bear-to-throw-them-out-discs and found a Herbie Mann album with arrangements by Oliver Nelson ("Latin Mann - Afro to Bossa to Blues"). It's a two-eye Columbia that had clearly led a hard life before winding up at Goodwill.

Long story short, it's not only playable but sounds sensational. Sure, some of the surface noise and clicks are still there, but they don't interfere with my enjoyment -- it's left my purgatory stack for good. And if you don't look too closely (especially at all those marks around the spindle), you'd almost think it was new -- very shiny indeed.

Earlier I had used your fluids to clean a REALLY old copy of Reiner's performance of Pictures at an Exhibition (Italian RCA label, mfg. in Germany!). As I noted on some posts re the new SACD version, this LP definitely waxed (sorry) the SACD. Also, while our comparison tests of two copies of the same records were less dramatic, tho still in favor of your stuff, these were all near-mint to begin with and treated first with "conventional" RC fluids.

Following comments here, I left the #1 fluid on the Herbie Mann disc for well over a minute. I've been using Last brushes for this exercise and wet them down first with distilled water, primarily to "ration" your fluids, though I think it's a good idea regardless.

I think these fluids have DEFINITE sales potential. Just received the new KAB catalog -- you might send Kevin Barrett a sample (www.kabusa.com).

Great stuff. Thanks again, Paul.