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VPI turntable again......

Hi,
I make my judgement on any product based on observation and common scense. I never own a VPI turntable and I never will since I don't believe in their design. The VPI design just don't make scense to me.

Let see some of the VPI's design....like the tri-pulley design. It just don't make scense at all....just the bearing(the one which support the platter) already make a lot of noise and you can hear it !!! Now add three tiny pulley and spinning at high speed.....I really don't know how many rpm. At that small size....may be a 800 rpm !!!! And there are a total three high speed pulley spinning at 800 rpm....It is a truly noise make machine !!!! Where did the noise goes? It has to go somewhere...it won't just disappear into thin air....again you can hear more noise and it all come out from you speaker.

And another design is two motor driving one pully and then the turntable.....no two motor turn with 100% accuracy...there is always some variation in speed...Beside one motor is noisy enough, now add two. Double the noise output. Where did all the motor noise goes? Again, you can hear it from you speaker.

If I made someone angry in my earlier post....I apology. I hope this post help you to understand why I'm saying what I said.

Peace.............
edle
vvrinc
323 posts
 
I did find that on my TNT Mk. 5, not using a flywheel was better. I can’t quite express the difference since it was subtle but, the sound in general was more realistic.

I have never heard the motor on my TT make noises or heard it through the speakers, even in the very softest passages in the music. I can only presume that the problems Edle describes were due to faulty setup or malfunctioning equipment.

Happy Thanksgiving to all and best regards.
Santiago
jeff_jones
418 posts
 
I applaud you for thinking things through and using logic as a guide. In audio stuff, in my opinion, there is a lot of "voodo" equipment out there that is sold to the most gullible.

That said, a lot of times what ends up being 'right' in any field of evdeavor is counter intuitave. In my opinion, VPI designs (and all other quality designs) tend to be based upon finding what sounds the best to the designer. This involves a lot of trial and error and the end result can end up being very different than would be predicted just by speculation.
rushton's avatar
rushton
2,445 posts
 
Edle, correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you're following up to explain a comment tossed out in this other thread, just as people posting to that thread asked you to do:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1101269900&openusid&zzEdle&4&5#Edle

Assuming this is the case, congratulations and thank you. You've done a nice job explaining your opinion. As a suggestion, this may have made more sense to folks if you had posted it as a follow-up post to that same thread.

The responses you've already received pretty well cover any thoughts I would offer in reply to your arguments about the VPI designs.
.
jeff_jones
418 posts
 
OK, so I'm a nurd.
Was walking the dog this morning and got to thinking about your theoretical objection (i.e. 800 rpm = bearing noise).

There are two ways to get high effective inertia, one is to spin something really heavy, or with a really large radius at low speed, the other is to spin something lighter or smaller in radius at high speed. If you want to get really nurdy, Torque = (Inertial mass) * RPM.

When you go with the low speed approach you have to deal with a few problems, one is that there are physical limits on maximum size of a turntable system, another is that precision is more difficult to maintain as you scale upward, a third is that if your device spins on rolling bearings then the number of bearings (and the chance of getting one too far out or round)goes up as the bearing count goes up. When you go with the higher rpm approach some of the design challenges are reduced in magnitude and you can get higher effective inertia than would otherwise be possible for practical reasons.

In any case, still think that the proof is in the pudin, but even from pure speculation you can make a case for either approach.
Happy Listening!
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,103 posts
 
Dear Edle:
" VPI turntable again......
Hi,
I make my judgement on any product based on observation and common scense. I never own a VPI turntable...".

No one, including you, can speak about supposed noise ( through the speaker ) in a turntable only by " common scense ".
All the turntables makes noises and these noises comes from different places in the TT, this is not the subject: the subject is if all those noises affect the sound reproduction and if we can hear those noises.
Till to now I never hear from any one that the VPI TTs had
a noise that can hear through the speakers ( BTW, I never hear it for any top Highend TT ).
Which your point? that you are against VPI TT?. Not big deal.
Why don't ask directly to VPI Industries the S/N ratio value of their TTs, I'm sure that this value it will be around 80db ( DIN B ) and it is inaudible for you or for any one, but dogs.
Now, in the remote case that you already hear that supposed VPI noise then tell us ( link by link on the audio chain sytem ) the whole audio system where you hear it and do it, too, a favor to all VPI owners: do a report to VPI Industries.
Regards and always enjoy the music.
Raul.
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