It's funny how records are still best.

Hi Chuck,

I don't have a distaste for digital. I happen to enjoy my CDP very much. In my very humble opinion it is necessary to have both to enjoy all of the music that is available. And there certainly are examples of the ceedee being better than it's vinyl counterpart, usually due to remixing or just crappy vinyl. As good as my CDP is, there is still a real step up when I spin records. Very much like the difference between SS and really good tubes. Granted, my sources while not being the creme are still a long way from modest. While quite good in some cases, SACD never seemed to me to reach the "analog-like" claims. Plus I have always been leary of what I consider a proprietary format from a company that has long held tightly to the reins of how there products are marketed and seem to be developed to sound best when all of their components are used. Call me paranoid but I don't trust Sony as far as I can spit. Then there is that whole issue of buying a library that again is driven mainly by a single company and limited in choice. Naw, I'll stick to redbook thanks. At least until there is an end to the format wars.

I agree with you that I don't see how people who buy vinyl with the grooves worn out could get them to sound good. But then the idea is not to buy the worn out ones. I tend to buy mostly from local used record stores where I might average $6 per but I can see the vinyl and judge what I can clean and what will usually not recover no matter how many times I clean it. I've also had those 50 cent near mint garage sale LP's, but they are not the norm from this source. I would say that many of my best samples have been given to me by folks such as yourself who kept their records for many years, took great care of them and in the end decided that they weren't ever going to play them again. I do disagree with your friend about the need for heavy vinyl. I have some 180g LP's that just are well made. Then I have some of those wafer thin LP's from the '70s and '80s that are very quiet and sound terrific.

Now if we use background noise as the criteria for deciding whether digital or analog is better then I would probably give the nod to the 1's and 0's. But when you consider the sonic qualities there is no question in my opinion that analog is better. I wish it could be reel-to-reel but I'll take the licorice pizza's!

After wasting whole day on comparing CDs to LPs i. e. same albums LPs to CDs, using one of so called, analog like DAC's I think may be I was too critical :). And I did forget to mention in my privious post, that exapt Technics for $25 and Shelter for $1000 I also used phono for $2000, so its all ads up. You know.:)
However, one has to compare same albums, i.e. its not fair to take some CD which was originally recorded in 24 bit or in DSD somewere in 2004 and compare it with 1938 Benny Goodman's LP.
Yes, there are a many "not perfect" recordings on LPs, but it still sounds less irritating and fatigue, at least to my ears, then same crappy recording on CD, or moreover on SACD. Likewise good recordings on LPs will be also more plesant, to my ears, then on CDs. For example I compared Mobil Fidelity Dark Side of the Moon to its counterpart on 180g vinyl (25 years aniversary adition, and LP was better. And my analog rig i.e. table/tonearm/catridge was not seted up by sombody who really knows what he is doing, which as I understand very important.
P.S. However, after listening for LPs only, for about 10 days straight, I have to admit that it such a relief to be able to use "pause" button on remote, versus jumping of the couch and lift a tonearm every time you have to answer the phone.

Dan_ed

I can appreciate your thoughts and opinions and the fact you like vinyl. That is certainly your choice. But yes it is about background noise the snaps the clicks and the pops that take away from the pleasure of the music at least for me. This is especially true during the quiet passages of a classical piece or even when the full orchestra is playing and it sounds somewhat distorted/congested.

My friend rig is top notch and has experienced good vinyl and poor vinyl and he fully understands what it takes for vinyl to perform at its best. Now I am sure that when vinyl is done right and set-up properly it will outperform cd/sacd I just have not heard it yet. I certainly know that my inexpensive tt/tone arm set-up is/was not going to do it. If you are peronoid about Sony and are biased against them then so be it. Again that is your choice.

I for one have embraced the format and will continue to support it (read Hybrid). I have found plenty of titles available for my listening pleasure and continue to see more releases every day if only from the small specialised labels. Happy listening

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

I am very curious about hybrids but admit that I don't know much about them. Is this only cd/sacd? In all fairness, Sony is only part of my issue with sacd. I did get burned by the Betamax thing years ago and then there was my brief excursion into quadraphonics. OH, the horror! Blue-ray makes me cringe just thinking about it and I haven't experienced it at all, yet. Upon reflection I believe that I suffer from "early adopter syndrome". This hasn't paralized me 'cuz I bit into HDTV a few years ago. Glad that investment is starting to pay off! I chose an analog tube HD set based on picture quality. Don't know what that means except that video is an area where digitalization is an improvement. But it ain't worked for displays. High-end plasmas may be the exception, but they still suffer from motion artifacts.

Back OT, I can sympathize with the noise issue. I suppose that since I grew up with vinyl I learned a long time ago how to listen passed the occasional ticks. But then again, that is why I believe that I have always been more anal about playback than most people I know. I can easily tolerate some noise between tracks but it does make me squirm in my chair abit when it happens during a critical piece of a song. Looking over my vinyl collection it is no wonder I have several copies of some LP's. But when it's right, wow! That distortion you mention on loud passages makes me want ot try adjusting VTA,VTF, better tracking tonearm or cartridge. See! I'm ill with it!

Yea, vinyl is not a perfect format and it does take alot of fussing and tweaking. But I've always been into hands-on kind of hobbies. So to echo the cliche for others that might be following along, if you're willing to put in the effort it can be very rewarding.

Thanks,

Dan

The real answer to the cd/vinyl debate is BOTH - depending on the date. Much of my early 50's jazz collection is still unavailable on cd or if it is, it's often a crapy remastering. Even the best don't compare to the original LP's IMHO - at least not on my system. Some cd remasters of early jazz also suffer from deterioration in the master tape. On the other hand, most jazz after the early 80's is not available on LP, or if it is, there is likely a digital stage somewhere along the line in the mastering so you might as well just have the cd.
I find most cd's made from music recorded in the past 10 years to be quite musically enjoyable and would not wish to have an LP version. CD's of music recorded in the pre-cd era does not hold my interest like the LP.
As for the pops and clicks everyone complains about - clean your records properly and don't buy crapy old LP's and this will never be an issue. I have hundreds of records from as early as the late 40's which have barely any decernable noise but awesome sound!