how good is sacd1000 on red book

Air... yeh, that's what I think I feel like I'm missing from redbook playback on the philips player. BUT, after almost 6 days of continuous playback, the sound has opened up some, and become better integrated within itself.

the midrange is probably it's best trait, the high end needing the most help.

In asking for mods, I'd look for someone who could open up the top end, add some air, and remove some of the overall coloring the unit has... there just seems to be a little bit of a thickness to the sound. I'd also ask to see if the soundstage could be expanded... the sound is full, but doesn't extend far out on either side.

All this said, the unit sounds much better than it originally did, even two days of continuous playback. my ear did hear improvement over time.

Glad that we are basically on the same page Dennis and that you did not take offense to my comments / observations. I'm also glad to hear that the sound is opening up a bit. As i mentioned though, i'm thinking that i'll need to change the interconnects that i'm using in the long run. My initial thoughts are that some Magnan's would work wonderfully here for multiple reasons.

I don't really notice a "thickness" with this unit so much as i do the deep bass standing out. If one were using speakers with smaller woofers, mid-woofers with limited bass extension or a vented system ( especially passive radiator design ), i could see how this could tend to muddy / thicken or "congest" things a bit. Both my woofers and amps are definitely being pushed harder than they have ever been before, so i can see someone with less power and / or bass and power handling capabilities running into problems sooner than later with this player in the system.

With that in mind, i'm wondering what BIG "Hollyweird" explosions are like on DVD via this player ??? Maybe i need a few more watts and woofers : )

Joe: This unit comes with two SACD's, so i'll give them a listen when i get a chance. Is there a good SACD that one can pick up at Best Buy or one of the chain stores that will really let me see what this unit can do in SACD mode ? I know that they might not have the best variety of "audiophile approved" selections, but i don't think that anything that might have "fancy" recordings will be open on Sunday.

I'd also like to mention an idea here. If we can find a disc that is commonly available and use that as a reference for all of us to compare notes with, that would make things a lot simpler with greater potential for useful info being shared. With all of us using a disc or two for reference, we would be able to to compare the resolution and sonic characteristics of any SACD player. As such, we need to hear some suggestions as to what disc(s) are worth using for something like this.

Someone with a good selection of SACD's with a lot of SACD listening experience should start a thread regarding "reference quality SACD's" and let's see what we can come up with. Obviously, musical tastes will come into this, but if we do this strictly as a technical measure for comparison sakes, the doors are wide open. Sean
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In this continuing search for truth, justice and great sound
for money, I'd like to add the following....the SACD 1000
as Sean points out has a strong bottom end. I was more
impressed with it's mid bass definition.

I'm glad you folks are hearing the benefits of some break-in.

Having just looked over the circuit diagrams today, I think
the unit's high end signature is due to the large polarized
caps in the analog output stage. These will be my first
targets for upgrade/bypass.

Sean's suggestion to start a thread for reference SACDs recording is a good one. Since there's now a lot of SACD 1000 players in Audiogon systems, I think a thread on mods, both professional and dyi would also be useful.

Funny....84audio who started this excellent thread has his "unopened" SACD 1000 listed for sale.

Mele Kalikimaka.

Sean, I know you are into rock music pretty heavily, but if you have any jazz leanings, I have found that the Charles Mingus "Mingus Ah Um" SACD to be a disc that I really like.

Upright bass is quite realistic; the notes have the correct attack, crescendo, and decay of the instrument, with a believable air around them. Horns have nice bite. The sound of Mingus(him, in particular) on this SACD offers something that I was previously unable to hear through my system through CD.

*** Disclaimer for all the anti SACD fanatics, I HAVE NOT TRIED A $3000+ CD PLAYER IN MY SYSTEM ***

I am not sure if others agree with me being impressed with this disc, but if anyone out there has it, I would appreciate them also chiming in.

This disc might represent something that fans of classical, rock, and jazz might be able to use as a common reference point. It features various instruments, both visceral and delicate, and I find it well recorded despite its age. On the down side, there are no vocals, which I find important and may preclude it from being the Audiogoner reference.

While introducing the Rolling Stones 1960's catalog is big news, I am looking forward to being able to buy whatever I want on SACD. I am more into Led Zep, The Who, The Yardbirds, and a ton of more modern stuff. That's when they'll get my money.

The thing I notice most about SACD is getting the weight of the recording much more correct than CD through just about any CD player I have come across(the elite excepted). That and the "realness" are what sets vinyl most apart from CD to me. And, while I still think that at this point vinyl trumps SACD, SACD represents a definite step closer to what I seek. I think that from the lower midrange on down, SACD makes me happier than CD with its weight and believability. There is also a clarity that SACD recordings seem to possess. I don't have enough experience yet with SACD, but I am holding out hope about the realness.

With each new wave of players, Sony targets the masses. I think that for audiophiles, the best has probably come to us from Sony. I know that my 28 lb 333ES player sounds better to me than any of the 7 lb plastic faceplate stuff that has come since. If SACD will become the future of the high end, companies like Musical Fidelity, Linn, Audio Aero, YBA and the like will need to take us there. Just like it was for CD...

My complaint about SACD is the lack of software, although it seems to be on the upswing. The thing that I don't like about the SACD campaign is the way Sony wages it. They have no idea as to how to market the software. And, Sony does not have the either the intestinal fortitude or brains to fight a format war. Does Sony realize that the real format war may not be with DVD - A, but with CD? Maybe I am crazy, but I think that Sony should stop pressing CDs, and just sell SACD. With the amount of material they control, people will be forced to then buy the hardware, and it will all feed off of itself - others will press SACDs or hybrids. Believe me, people have no adversion to buying hardware(witness DVD, MP3, cell phones, palms, satellite tv and now radio), but you have to make them buy into the software.

Joe: I like all different types of music but listen to rock ( boy, what a BIG "generic" term ) the most. I do have everything from HDCD classical recordings down to a good assortment of jazz and blues with some European folk music thrown in for good measure. While i love the sound of a well recorded upright bass, i agree that vocal reproduction is a very important part of a music system.

As such, i really hope that someone starts a thread on the topic. If someone doesn't ( probably due to being "shy" and / or not wanting to be embarrassed if their selections get "panned" right off the bat ), i'll do it just to get the ball rolling. From there, people can chime in with some of their favorite discs. I guess that they need not be of "reference quality" so long as we have the same discs to compare notes with. Having said that, it would be nice to have a point of reference that was also of excellent qualtiy.

As to your comments about Sony dropping CD and moving to SACD, i sincerely doubt that this thought has ever entered their heads. The problem with this is that they are trying to demonstrate the superiority of SACD while at the same time bump up their profit margin for doing us the "favour" of "giving us" the higher quality recordings.

Since the record industry has run into a brick wall in terms of what people are willing to pay for discs prior to simply pirating music, they would either be forced to bring SACD's down to ( at least ) the price of standard CD's in order to be competitive. Otherwise, most people would reduce the quantity of purchases made even further and find ways to duplicate and distribute amongst their friends. As such, it is such a shame that the average citizen is being pushed to the point of becoming a "criminal" due to the greed of the recording industry as a whole. They simply do not understand that "slightly" reduced prices might open up the flood gates of sales and reduce the problems of pirating. After all, i think that most people would prefer to pay a bit more for a high grade ( HA ! ) factory recording complete with all of the liner notes, artwork, etc... than to have a ( typically ) lower grade boot-legged copy with nothing but the song titles listed on it.

How many of you can remember buying brand new LP's for $3.99 - $4.99 at your local "record store" ??? I can. Then again, i worked at a record store in the 70's. Is the recording industry trying to say it costs 3 - 4 times more to produce and market a CD than it does an LP ? I think not. Besides that, i think that the "defect rate" of LP's was MUCH higher than it is with CD's. As such, their overhead in terms of damaged products has got to be lower. It is pure and simple greed and nothing else.... Sean
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