Denon 2900: Questions, comments

Bob: The sonics of the SACD 1000 and the Denon are very different from on another. Whereas the Philips was definitely very warm, soft and full bodied, the Denon is measurably more open and forward while also having better harmonic structure and air. Whereas the Philips seemed to open up gradually, the change was not drastic. I had to do quite a bit of experimentation with the SACD 1000 to get it to where i wanted it sonically. For the record, i preferred Magnan III interconnects and a Chris VH Flavour II power cord on this unit when all was said and done. Those are the support components that i found to work most suitably with the sonics and components that i wanted out of this specific system.

As to the Denon, it seems like it is very slow to "break in" but is going through a bigger change than the Philips did as it settled. I have spent far more time with the Denon in terms of playing specific discs on repeat mode than i had to with the Philips. The sound of the Denon is still measurably more forward but has both leveled and smoothed out over time. Depending on the flavour of one's system / personal preferences, the forwardness of this player may be hard to deal with. Bare in mind that i'm still using the stock power cord and have not experimented in this area at all.

I've tried a few different interconnects and ended up using some inexpensive cables that i've found to work pretty well in some specific installations. The cables themselves measure pretty well in terms of electrical characteristics desirable for an interconnect, so they aren't "trick cables" in terms of severely rolling off any specific frequencies. They are of a coaxial design with an extra shield ( foil ) using inexpensive gold plated connectors. I've included a few links to some comments made about these cables on Agon from an end user. There are a few others here that have tried these cables and had similar results, replacing highly rated cables costing hundreds of dollars with them. As i've stated before, it's not so much what you spend or what brand name is on it, but how well it performs within your system. I am NOT a "brand name snob" or "cable snob" so much as i am a "synergy snob". If it works good and makes the music more enjoyable, who cares what it cost or who made it. These cables are doing the job, so that's what i'm using. If i find something better, i'll use it. Even if it costs LESS money : )

Rw: I read that review and came away with the feeling that the reviewer didn't adequately break the unit in. There is no mention in ANY of these reviews as to how long these units were used / listened to, how they were broken in, if other support components were changed to better suit each DUT ( Device Under Test ), etc.. The 2900 that i have has NO problem reproducing deep bass. That is, if it is there. If anything, i would say that the reviewer himself is not very skilled in communicating his thoughts and / or is not a good listener and / or did not take the necessary steps to truly evaluate what this player is capable of. Just because the presentation is forward does not mean that the extremes are rolled off as communicated in this review. I had typed out a response to TAS with similar comments in it, but quite honestly, i don't have much faith in Robert Harley. This is true even though i found him to be a very pleasant person to talk to.

As a side note, i think that both of these players have very specific sonic signatures in stock form. One would have to try them within the confines of their system to see if they would blend with their other components and personal preferences. This is especially true if you aren't good at or willing to tinker with support components like interconnects and ac cords. Sean
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Sean, thanks for the comparison. Appreciate your insight and thoughtful response. Will contact you about cables if I end up needing more for that &*$%@& 6-channel analog connection. Hopefully they will get a universal digital interface worked out soon, probably NOT something the cable manufacturers are looking forward to!

Thanks again,
Bob

I replaced an elcheapo Pioneer DV45A with the Denon 2900. I notice improved SACD audio quality, but not anything dramatic for DVD-A and CD. I leave the subtle audio evaluations (with various interconnects, etc.) to others.

However, I must comment on the purely functional aspects: loading discs and the like. In this regard the Pioneer was much better. Sometimes the Denon will not load a disc until I recycle it. The Pioneer had a nice feature: if you turned its power off while the disc drawer was open it would close the drawer before shutting down. The Denon takes much longer to load a disc. Little things, but I winder why, at more than twice the price, Denon couldn't get it right like Pioneer.

The Denon 2900 is vibration and power cord sensitive. The sound will change pretty much all over the map depending on the power cord - from terrible to quite good, which is possibly a reason why reviews have been so variable. Its cd performance isn't up to its (2-ch) sacd and dvd-a, both of which are considerably better than on my previous Pioneer 47a. I don't find it forward; rather, it is fairly neutral with a full bottom. When optimized for ac/vibration, the things lacking sonically compared to more expensive players are absolute clarity, edge definition, refinement and chromatic/dynamic detail. What more can you expect from a $900 player? The Denon does very well with ambience and space, and it sounds as though its snr measures well. Consider modding.

Bob: I'm not trying to sell cables as i'm not in the audio business. I provided those links for two reasons. One is to show that not everything has to cost a lot of money to work well. The other was to provide some background on the "no-names" that i was using from someone else's perspective.

El: I have to agree with you in general. That is, why can one player / model do some things SO much better than the competition ? As a side note, if you think that the Denon is slow, you don't want to try using a newer Philips machine. The Philips units don't even play DVD-A ( not as many different discs to recognize ) and on top of that, they are so sloooooow to change tracks, etc... As far as recognizing that there is a disc there, i've not had a problem with that. Put a disc in, wait a few seconds and then it's ready to go. No need for resetting, etc...

As to your comments about the sonics of the 2900, this unit seems to really need a lot of playing time on it. With all digital gear that i get, i simply install a disc ( i have some specifics i use for this ) and let it play on repeat "forever". Some players seem to settle in after about 72 hours whereas others ( like the Denon ) need hundreds of hours. On top of this, as you change modes, you change filter circuitry. What i'm getting at is that each mode of playback needs to be broken in individually.

For those that are worried about leaving a unit on repeat and / or the extra wear and tear, units that i've done this with seem to last as long or longer than units that were not broken in this way by others. I also leave my units powered up 24/7 though, so there is less thermal cycling and in-rush current surges to deal with. Yes, my SACD 1000 did "croak", but it was powered up for about 11 months non-stop. Many SACD 1000's didn't make it past a few weeks or even a couple of months before faulty circuitry gave out. Either i was lucky or my break-in / constant power routine helped a little.

Flex: Thanks for the info. I have not spent much time on SACD's with this unit. I don't have any DVD-A's, so you can guess where i'm at in this respect. Your comments about sonics are quite encouraging. As such, i probably need some more time on my unit and further attention to cabling. I'm certain that a power cord swap will help things out too.

Out of curiosity, what have you ended up finding to work well with your unit in the confines of your system in terms of footers, power cords, interconnects, etc ??? For sake of clarity, what type of rack do you have your player in ? The reason that i ask is that each rack has different factors to take into consideration i.e. isolation, coupling, rigidity, etc... "Ben" might find good luck with some specific products, but "Jerry" might have a very different rack. As such, one should not assume that what works in one system will work in another due to all of the variables. In case you're wondering, i am a firm believer that racks do contribute their sonic signature to the system.

My 2900 is in my HT system, which is housed in a 10 shelf Sanus rack. While far from ideal, it was inexpensive and utilitarian, especially so since i could purchase the parts wholesale : ) As such, the shelves are part of the support structure, which i really don't like, but at this point in time, that's what i've got to use. I haven't tinkered with any type of footer underneath this unit, so i'm more than open to suggestions taking into account the type of rack that i'm currently using.

As far as your comments about "modding" the unit go, i definitely have that in mind for this unit. I hesitated to do so with my SACD 1000 after so many people had problems with them. That is, i didn't want to void the warranty doing mods and then have the unit take a dive. I've got more confidence in the 2900, even though i know that they had some initial problems with these units too. For the record, i've seen "refurbed" 2900's on the market, but i was told by a friend of mine that is a dealer to stay away from these. According to him, the folks that refurb these for Denon do a less than stellar job. This is not to mention that many of the places selling these are NOT authorized Denon dealers and you don't get ANY warranty with them. Sean
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