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Why SACD,DVD-A are already DEAD

I think it's time to really look at this issue as it stands today,in a clear rational way that takes into account the varied market forces which are the true determinates for any new formats sucess or failure.
SACD IS ALREADY DEAD PERIOD!
Why you ask?Well for the following reasons:
1.It's been about 2-3 years since the introduction of SACD and look at position it's in, in terms of SOFTWARE AVAILIBILITY and MASS MARKET AWARENESS.
Take the pathetic lack of titles,not only that, but look at the artists that are chosen as SACD releases,Yo Yo Ma,Kind of Blue,(for the upteenth time)Muddy Waters etc,etc.This is no reflection on the artists but only on their limted MASS MARKET APPEAL.Who was the marketing genius who decided to re-issue this material to captivate and generate a MASS INTEREST to this new format.You need a MASS MARKET BASE for any medium to succeed.
2.As has been stated before in other forums(stereophile for one) why would the average person shell out $25 HARD EARNED DOLLARS for one of these titles?Why?What are the advantages to the average listerner.it COSTS more,it's an artist in a speciality genre comparatively speaking(jazz,blues,classical vs. pop,rock,techno)it offers no physical advantage in terms of storage,packaging,and not only that it requires a NEW player!
If you wanted to consciously destroy this new format you could'nt have done a better job than Sony has already done.
3.Given the current state of the music industry ,their major concern right now is to halt the proliferation of the MP3.What major label is going to go out and spends tons of $ on P&A(publicity,advertising)and also re-tooling their cd manufacturing plants to output SACD'S as efficently as CD'S?Right now their is NO MASS MARKET AWARENESS of SACD,it's a fact ,we live in the hermetically sealed world of the audiophile culture.Most people don't even know about HDCD,GOLD CD'S,MOBILE FIDELITY DISC'S!
Look at the history of the 8 track tape,dat,mini disc,beta and you will see that SACD is right on track for a quick burial.
3.In order to suceed you need a medium that offers a clear cut advantage over the existing technology.Other than some sonic advantages(even that's not a slam dunk as many would suppose)What does the average person get besides A HIGHER PRICED CD?
5.For those of you who have purchased these players
thinking that if the SACD revolution doesn't occur then at least I have a player that does cd's better than most players,well you're probably right in that it will out perform an AVERAGE player.But think about it ,Sony is making a player to maximize their new format NOT the CD.There will be some compromise on the cd playback chain, As the price of the SACD player drops so will the manufacturers concern with producing great sounding cd playback.Parts,build quailty will most definetly suffer.
DVD-A IS ALREADY DEAD PERIOD!
Why you ask?Well for the following reasons:
1.Again it's basically MARKET AWARENESS,SOFTWARE AVAILIBILTY AND THE COST OF THE DVD.
2.Why would the AVERAGE person buy a dvd-a disc for $25 and ignore theCHEAPER CD VERSION!.Well if that person owns a terrific sounding surround set-up then sure that person will most probably buy one,but that person doesn't represent the mass market.Sure DVD video has had tremendous growth but it's the video (movies)that'sdriving the market not the ability to play music.My theory is that dvd -a won't take off for basically the same reasons that SACD won't.MASS MARKET AWARENESS,COST OF DISC,COST OF CREATING A SURROUND SETUP FOR MUSIC,COST OF GETTING A DVD-A PLAYER.Since dvd is already in place as an excellent video playback medium,I think the cost of the disc will be a major hurdle for the average person.Watermarking will be the hump for the audiophile,besides the fact that the proper engineeering of these surround disc's will be crucial to audiophile acceptance of this format.Idon't think either of these issues will be resolved in the near future,or even at all.
WHAT SHOULD YOU DO NOW?
1.The current technology for cd players and cd engineering has progressed significantly in the past 3 years.My advise is to buy a good high end cd player right now!There are plenty to chose from ,be prepared to spend $3-$6 grand,but also be prepared to hear your cd's sound GREAT not good but really ,really GREAT!
Let's face it life is short ,the players are out there, start listening and buy one(no I'm not a manufacturer or salesperson)and start enjoying the hundreds or thousands of cd's you already own.
To all those vinylphiles,I think you face similiar problems.limted software,mass market REJECTION.and old technology which needs a significant $ expenditure for great sound,not to mention the care and maintance required to keep these puppies sounding tick and pop free. I think of vinylphiles as one would think of vintage car hobbists,it's cool if you don't mind the fuss(I doI think the old maxim that lp's sound better than cd's is becoming meaningless.good lp on good system =good sound. good cd on good system= good sound.Ironically I think vinyl will prevail over sacd and dvd-a,it's a small club but it has a history behind it that will guarantee it's longevity.
So IMO cd's and vinyl for quite some time ,both require some cash outlay for a really good playback but it's the NOW and that NOW will be around for at least the next 10 years.
joeavid
garfish
1,840 posts
 
Joe; I too am in almost total agreement with your thread post. The one place I disagree is that SACD or DVD-A or DVD-V has something like 7 times the storage capacity of a redbook CD, and in the LONG, LONG term this gives it a significant advantage over CD (but maybe not for music?).

BTW,I've now seen SACDs for $17.-- same as "new release" CDs. But my local small town music dealer has never even heard of SACDs-- and they've been out 3 years or so? Amazing.

Right now though, you're right on-- industry is fumbling with converting from a basically low storage disc to a high storage disc-- at least for music. And I for one am not about to give up my ever growing CD collection. As you noted, CDs can sound excellent too, and at age 59, that's where I'm staying. Maybe someday the next generation can look back to the golden age of CDs. Good Luck to us all. Craig
garfish
1,840 posts
 
Nice post Scott. The FMD technology you describe sounds very "Star Trekish". Craig
bbtuna
96 posts
 
yep...Noel are you listening? Abandon the SACD thing, it is dead before it is born. All the reasons already listed and more besides.

No, it may be “better” under the right circumstances but it isn’t better enough and accessible enough to make it work. The business model doesn’t seem to scale to the average consumer very well and the high end audiophile can’t support a specialized product like this without tons and tons more software. Despite the gear orientation many of us in this hobby, most, are musicphiles too.
If I go looking for a redbook CD today I have 10s or thousands of choices in every genre imaginable. SACD? DVDA? What a couple hundred after 3 years? Some of us have collections of CDs and LPs in the thousands, what are we supposed to do, replace all this? Give me improvements that make my current software better not the other way around. No, they are dead they just hasn’t fallen over yet.

PS Sony isn’t so dumb, remember the Walkman? Sony was also one of the founding members for DVD video weren’t they? DVD players are the hottest selling electronics in history. My local Blockbuster is supposed to be one of the pilot stores to convert to almost 100% DVD, now that’s software.

Bye bye to SACD and DVDA…they were so young, but you know what they say, “Only the good die young”.

cd
jwrobinson's avatar
jwrobinson
61 posts
 
I hate to admit it, but SACD and probably DVD-A are not going to make it. That's a shame, really. I have a DVD-A player with an Outlaw outboard base management box and it works great in multi-channel mode. I would not bother with 2-channel DVD-A. There are,of course, drawbacks--lack of popular discs, pricing, and some pretty mundane music. The biggest problem I see is the record companies who are more concerned with copy protection than marketing a good product. I've heard SACD at audio shows, but I have never seen a disc in a retail store(Tallahassee). At least my DVD-A player is a good DVD player in and of itself. What to do? I will continue to listen to my 1000+ vinyl collection and to my CDs on my 2-channel tube based system (I just bought a pair og Quicksilver tube amps off this site and love them). By the way, the best CDs I've heard are JVC XRCDs. They are without a doubt the best produced and re-mastered CDs you can buy.
Got off track a little bit but there is a lot of good stuff to listen to
Jim

bomarc
501 posts
 
The music industry can still save SACD/DVD-A, by simply phasing out production of redbook-only disks, and selling hi-res disks (readable on CD players, of course) for at most a nominal amount more than the current price of CDs. Then, over time, consumers will build up collections of hi-res disks, and the audio companies can market hi-res players as a way to "get the most out of the disks you've already got." I don't see any other way to make this plane fly, Orville. (Also, this will only work if there's a single hi-res format. Otherwise, the slogan becomes, "Get the most out of half the disks you've got." Not exactly catchy.)

I also agree with Joe on hi-res digital vs. optical. For good clean sound, my vote goes to digital. But for obsessive fun, vinyl's got it all. Plus, there really is software out there, albeit used.

To some extent, though, this debate is a little short-sighted. Eventually, disks themselves will be obsolete, and you'll just download everything you want (for a fee) at whatever resolution you want into your terabit iPod. Once the bandwidth is there, hi-res becomes very feasible.
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