DV-50s vs Krell SACD Standard vs Denon 3910 mod

i held my tongue in that supposed "shootout" thread, but i'm gonna chime in here.

i've no doubt that the APL player is a nice player. i'm sure it is.

but i've owned many a cd player in my day and 711smilin's assertion that the esoteric dv-50 is 'one-dimensional,' and 'sounds like radio shack,' and 'is bettered in every way' by the modded denons is a load of horse crap. even a previous poster in this thread has his facts wrong regarding the esoteric transport: there IS NO CLAIM to a VDRS clamp-mechanism in the dv-50. it is a pioneer transport! so? the APL uses a denon transport! what's your point? and no, the VDRS is *NOT* in any way a glossed-over OEM - it is designed and built in-house, and is one of the finest transports built.

again, no disrespect to alex of APL because i'm sure he truly does great work - but beware of the ludicrous superlatives and silly claims that one player "trounces" another or that because the esoteric dv-50 uses a pioneer transport that it's "a home theater unit with no business i a high-end system." this simply is not the case.

it's amazing the stigmas we have as audiophiles. the sacred cows we keep - cd's can't sound good; if it doesn't just play cd's it can't be any good; pcm leaves an audible fingerprint in every case; oem transports are cheap; if it plays dvd's also then it's "home theater" equipment. (God Forbid!)

that is just plain crap. i've owned the dv-50 along with several other highly ranked cd players and TO MY EARS it is a fantastic unit for the cost. period. on redbook, sacd, dvd-audio it is fantastic. i wouldn't trade my emmlabs meitner gear for the world, but i did trade my resolution audio opus 21 for it. did it handle cd as well as the resolution audio? i don't think so - not to my ears, anyway. did the resolution audio "trounce it?" or "destroy it," or "make it sound one-dimensional?" no, it didn't. i decided it was a fair sacrifice for universal playback. this this mean i'm right? no, it means i'm right for me. when i bought my meitner gear, did i buy it because somebody i trusted told me it sounded good? honestly, yes i did. but if i hadn't liked the sound, i'd have sold it right back. that's part of the fun - sometimes you can buy used stuff blindly and then sell it for the same price. it's fun and that way you don't have to rely on other's opinions - and certainly not let their opinions influence your own.

but sadly, that's not enough for some. no, some people in this hobby have agendas. i firmly believe that some of the loons who say that "this product destroys, demolishes, kills that one" are doing no more than trying to validate themselves, their "golden ears" and/or their purchases. yes, there are products out there that sound more real than others, but in the world of high-end cd players - it really comes down to personal preference. a krell will sound different than a linn. a naim different from a teac esoteric. meitner different from wadia. there's no need to try to convert anyone into believing that you are right, that your player is the best - enjoy the music, people! the day this hobby ceases to be fun is the day we should jump ship! let's just use some common sense - a disc player costing $5500 is not going to sound like radio shack! and if it did, it wouldn't sell! i don't care if it also plays dvds, it just wouldn't. you might not like the presentation of it, but *please.* there are so few absolutes in this hobby and when somebody is so insanely vocal in their vehemence in using them, that's when we need to step back and question why. i hate to sound so cynical, but if you read that whole thread with an open mind, you'll see what i mean.

that "shootout" thread IMHO is a microcosm of mob mentality. look at it from the beginning and follow the progression. it's a perfect model for a sociology textbook! at first, everybody jumps on the bandwagon saying "dv-50 is great, blah blah blah" (whether from their own experiences or because of the positive reviews, i cannot say) and then in comes one person, more vocal than the rest to challenge that notion. this one is so much more vocal than the others that he suddenly becomes the alpha male - the unquestionable audio guru, the one who first says that the emporer is wearing clothes - can't you see them? if not, you must be a fool. he convinces one person on the thread via a visit to his house of it and then all of a sudden, people start to doubt their own decisions and jump on his bandwagon - feeding his ego and validating themselves because they agree with the alpha male and his obviously "golden ears." i mean, nobody wants to be thought the fool, right? maybe they didn't like what they had heard after all? maybe somebody else knows more than they do about what sounds good to them.

nonsense. only you know what sounds good to you.

people, the emporer has no clothes. listen for yourself and make your own decisions. question when people overuse superlatives. avoid the hyperbole and the rhetoric. it's about music, folks - that's why we're all here. no need to put anybody else's equipment down to make yourself feel better, or to try to validate youself by convincing others that you're right or to try to validate yourself by jumping on the popular bandwagon.

yes, i'm aware of the irony implicit by my posting this and trying to change people's minds, but this i implore of all of you - do what makes sense and is logical to you. whther or not you agree with me.

thanks for taking my call, diane, and i'll take my response off the air.

:-)

honestly - happy listening to all.

Lazarus28, Thank you for your viewpoint, I hope you read the WHOLE thread where I in fact Apoligized if I seemed overzealous. I am on a mission, and a search for the digital source that I feel is the best, to me. I believe what I am hearing right now in my system, with my ears, is in fact just that. I am really attempting to describe accurately, my findings. Not to promote, for I have no direct relationship with any modder, or manufacturer. In fact, I have the balls to do exactly what you say, That is I buy, try, compare, sell, or return. I, in fact am still searching for the right source. Only, now it is for my HT. I will still lend my unit for shootouts, comparisons, and fun. Hey, thats just me. I own a mortgage company, and do not need to sell audio for a living, nor do I. That being said, I do not have any motive except to report in an honest way, what I hear. You are right that not everyone is going to like the same thing. IMHO, most do, most meaning more than 50%. That makes a majority, and thats why shootouts are fun, and educational.

I am glad you have the Meitner gear, and are happy. Had I not run accross Alex, and APL I might have the Meitneer too. In fact I look forward to comparing, and guess what, If I like the meitner better, in my system, I will buy it. I have stated I have a budget of 20k for this, and I think the meitner falls in there. I hope one day soon you get to listen to the APL, and I get to compare, directly with the meitner. Hopefully my player will be at the shootout at audioesentials next weekend, (I will be on a cruise with my wife and daughter)I am just hoping those who
do attend, get the same type of enjoyment, and pleasure as me. My purpose here is not to promote a certain product, it is to bring great products to peoples attention. Why? Cause it makes me happy, and helps those around me on the same search as myself. A lot of people cannot take the time I am putting forth, and/or do not have the resources I have to play this game. Yes, to me, this is fun, I am on a journey to find my audio nirvana. Sounds to me that you are too. We seem to be on an analagous journey seperate, but together. Please tell me IYHO, the difference between the Meitner, and the DV-50. I am real interested to see how you would put it.

I also have owned the DV-50, or I never could have said what I said. Yes, my initial posting on the thread were overly zealous, and incorrectly phrased. I was so exited with my APL, and Exemplar, and acted foolish in my writings. I forgot that the written word, is a record. I did apologize for that. I must tell you I feel really proud about my journey, and my writings, today. I have rerceived much email, of appreciation from many audiogon members, requesting me to keep up the great work. I am still having fun here, I hope I am not offending you in any way, shape, or form. As I said before, I intend to keep on my search, until I stop having fun with it. Please try not to make this journey a drag. I invite you to vistit if you are ever in the Chicago area.

Thanks again for the comments, and yes I am a hairy guy, sort of like a gorilla, so maybe I am the Alpha male. Wink wink

I wouldn't buy anything before trying the new Marantz SA-11 two channel SACD. Although I haven't heard it yet, the SA-14 is fabulous and hopefully the ll is even better.

Richard

Meta, I heard you're in the Bay Area. Would you care to share a listening experience whenever you get the APL back? Thanks.

If "since CD is my priority," take a look at the Talk Electronics Thunder 3.1b, it's in your price range.

IMO, unless you're going to go the Meitner route, forget about SACD and the modified universal player of the week.