Martin Logan Aerius with subwoofer ?????

hi jim,

last nite, i listened (again!) to nusrat fateh ali khan & michael brook - "night song" this cd has *amazing* low-frequency info, & believe me, bass frequencies *can* be directional! :>) if ya have the room, definitely try to go for a pair of subs. there are many other recordings i have that have directional bass, as well.

holly hippodaze, doug

Yeah, I think you're right about that Doug. I picked up the same pov from vmps' site. I'm just grappling with placement issues -- got to get the tape measure out. My speakers are on a 10x13 rug on an otherwise tiled floor. Since vmps says you can use their subs as stands for Quads and Soundlabs maybe I can place them in front of my CLS's (which are on Arcici stands), although placement outside the speakers would probably be best. Thanks for the tip on these -- I knew nothing about the company before. Their point regarding the quality of amp/crossover used in most subs makes a lot of sense. Now I'm thinking about how the combination of the ss sub amp will sound with my tube amp???? Even though the REL and Vanderstein subs are powered, they receive imput from the main power amp and respond in kind. I'm not sure about the technical aspects, but something about retaining the characteristics of the main amp throughout the frequecy range. Now what I'd REALLY like to get my hands on is a pair of the Kinergentics subs (SWB 800???). These were tall, narrow enclosures with 8 drivers in each cabinet designed specifically for CLS's... kind of a "mini" Statement set up. This combination has zero WAF though.

jim, the kinergetics subs - sw8000's i tink were the name of their top-model, would be excellent, but even if ya find a pair used, they're still expensive. as i recall, they had five 10" drivers per side. melos recommended them to me as a good mate for the newform research speakers i'm considering, but when i reminded them that i had my pair of vmps', they said i should be all right as-is,... ;~)

i woodn't be worried about using a solid-state amp w/subs when using tubes on top - wood prolly ackshully be a good thing, considering ya want the subs to be as fast as possible to keep up w/the 'stats.

i tink it inneresting yure using the cls - i strongly considered getting a pair, but i was turned-off when even m-l told me 93 db was the max i'd get outta them, even if crossed-over to subs at 100hz, which is ackshully higher than i'd like to go. for most music, i'd be ok w/93 db max, but every now-n-again, i like raucous music! :>) that's why i'm considering newform research electrostats - they're more efficient, go louder, and seem to be less sensitive to room-placement than the cls' - they're mono-poles, no sound from the back of 'em. but waf is *really* a problem w/these - i dunno if even *i* will be able to put up w/the way they look! :>) i suggest ewe czech out their www, as well as the reviews (on the r645) on audioreview. more than most of the reviews there, it's impressive what the users ancillary equipment is, & other speakers considered. one guy is using the $17k c-j art preamp, so i don't tink bargain-price was the attraction! these things retail for ~$2250, which ain't bad if they really live up to their claims.

Doug, no matter what, CLS's on their own will never be raucus. That's the part-time problem. The 80/20 rule is coming into play. I'm mostly sooooo happy with these speakers. They do the transparent detail thang so well. But some stuff I listen to isn't quite there. In my current listening environment (read: big, asymetrical living room) I could actually use a pair of subs as end tables. The rug that I had made will cover the speaker cables (well, if I get Alpha Goertz for the subs) nicely. You are right, the SW800's had five drivers per side. Hmmmmm, what do do? I'll just chill and listen to the music.... went from Muddy Waters to Mississippi Fred McDowell to John Lee Hooker to the Flamin Groovies to Tom Waits. Now to pick up the osso bucco. Ciao, Doug. And Merry Christmas.

jim, w/eclectic musical tastes, ya need one-size-fits-all speakers! :>) i've heard the cls' and absolutely love what they do well, but, as ya say, some of the stuff yust ain't there, on some music. i thought that subs wood be the cure, but according to m-l, which i corresponded w/about it - it's only a partial cure - yust not enuff dynamics. they suggested the requests, but i'm really not too keen on the other m-l stuff. perhaps the gnu prodigy wood work, but a bit outta my budget! thus, the investigation of the newforms. w/a 30-day in-home trial, i'd only be out shipping if they're not *it*...meantime, the meret re's are quite nice. le'see, today was some buena-vista social club, king sonny ade, neil young unplugged, keith jarrett/jan garbarek, lightnin' hopkins/sonny terry, & some rasta-style christmas music, as well as a bit of jazz-blues x-mas stuff from the (relatively) local non-commercial excellent jazz/blues/latin/caribbean radio station i send money to... now, enjoy that *other* italian symphony on the way to get the osso-bucco! :>)

holly hippodaze

doug

ps - i mite be mistaken, but i believe the sw800's are a smaller (3-driver?) less expensive wersion of the sw8000's...