SPeakers 90% of your sound

I too am very much a source kinda guy and yet I find that I have prefered a wide range of components in every link of the chain except preamps......so few seem to bring on the musicality that I have enjoyed over the years. Once this is right, I then focus on the sources.

I agree with Tobias. I had a Linn LP12 for 18 years and it sounded great. But then I started "moving up" with electronics, cables, speakers, etc., and the difference was less and less than it had been. Then, I moved up to the Clearaudio Reference TT and it trounced the living daylights out of the Linn in frequency extremes extension, far more low level resolution, a more neutral tonal balance and a much much darker background. And surprise surprise, upgrading the other links started to make a huge difference again. Differences between my BAT VK-P10 and Aesthetix Io phono stages were very evident.

Even putting mediocre speakers in the system resulted in a phenomenol presentation. Tonality changed dramatically of course, but the sound was still quite impressive. Going back to the Linn would not have been as tolerable. So for me, it really is all about the source.

Now the only thing left is to get me out of this 18'x13' basement room and into a decked out room that Rives is talking about. There needs to be some optimization with speaker placement in the room but the amp/speaker link too needs to be matched very well .... almost to a point where these are considered one unit.

John

I would have to agree with Rives on the most part, I wish I had a dollar for every time I listened to an audiophile say how bad this or that sounded at a dealer or at one of the big shows, like these guys don't have a good source/amp/speakers/wires, you name it, they got it and it still sounds bad in a bad room. On the other hand, sometimes you listen at the dealer in a great room and then take the exact same gear home and the magic seems to have been left behind (Why?) because of your room. If you don't think your room is the most important part, set your system up in the back yard some time. Unless there is a total system mis-match (Amp can't drive speakers/source is 8 track tape or something else way out there) the speaker-room interface is the most important in my experience. $500 dollars spent on your room will be far better upgrade than any set of cables could give at any price. Bass/Image/depth and height along with those beautiful strings and all the realistic vocal we strive for are not there as they should be in a poor room. DOWN WITH WAF.

Jafox, your point about preamps is well taken. My own Klyne was a surprise. Not too many people seem to know about it, it was hard to find and hear, yet it was several times better than a best-buy Copland tube preamp in my system. In other words, the obvious choices weren't the best, either musically or financially. Of all components, the preamp seems to be the one which is toughest to upgrade.

I also take your point on moving a system to a new level, which you did when you got your Clearaudio Reference and which I did when I moved from my LP12 Valhalla to a Cirkus Lingo. I discovered some component changes will just do that, move the music to a new level, and start you on a new round of upgrading because the potential of the system seems so much greater. It's important to mention that this potential appears in the power of the music to touch and move, and of the system to keep you involved hour after hour, up late spinnig discs and buying more.

I am now at the point of examining room acoustics very carefully, before I do any more component upgrades, or I may not hear enough of the difference in an upgrade to decide properly. I think now that the better the system, the more difference the room makes.

I think the price range of the components in the system really dictates what's most important (for that system). If I had $50 speakers, I wouldn't be out shopping for room treatments. Assuming you had "good" electronics, upgrading those $50 speakers to some $1000 speakers would likely give a significant improvement. Then, maybe upgrading that $500 CD player to a $1500 player would offer the most improvement. As has been mentioned, I think it is most certainly the balance that matters most.

Dburdick, change "assuming you had good electronics" to "assuming you had a good source" and I'm with you all the way. Speakers should certainly be upgraded. It's a step in reaching balance. But IMO they should not be upgraded before all the upstream equipment has been upgraded first, starting with the source.

Of course, if you luck on a component you want badly but had slated for two upgrades from now, then finances and availability, not sound, may dictate the choice.

I do agree that room treatments may not help very much when your speakers cost $50. Unless those fifty bucks were very well spent indeed, which of course is what I wish you and everyone here. I do not think it is good spending, ever, to have $1000 speakers with a $500 CD player, unless a stroke of luck was involved.

I should add that to me, "good spending" means getting the most musical satisfaction for the hard-won dollar.