TEACH ME ABOUT BI-WIRE

Redkiwi: I know how you feel. I personally am getting tired of Black eyed peas with garlic and parsley. They are getting really old and just don't seem to have anything to say at the dinner table anymore. Maybe we will switch to Rhubarb.

I agree. We're back to the same old stew about cables, electrons and so called science "running down hill". Most speaker manufacturers produce bi-wire speakers for a very good reason. In most reasonably assembled stereo rigs, Bi-Wiring sounds better and the speaker manufacturers know it. That's why they design and build them that way. Most people who have tried bi-wiring have had success with it.

Talk about bad wiring, what gear could Beverly Hills 70242 and Stevemj use to reach such conclusions? Does anyone besides me find it odd that they dodge the subject repeatedly and refuse to say what it is? Perhaps bi-wiring makes no difference with their gear. None of them have ever posted their gear or given a listening impression of it; single wire, bi-wire or anything else. If they were to share their experiences of their gear, as the rest of us do, perhaps some of us would take them seriously. I'm sure their gear measures just fine. Personally, I just itchin to read something by these guys about a pre amp or DAC but all I ever see is the same old "wire" posts and little else. Oh! I almost forgot about the "Farewell" forum post where one of them posted that he was leaving because he felt sorry for himself. I don't know about anyone else but I find wire and drama a dull mix.

So come on guys, let's hear it. What gear do you use to validate your scientific theories in the real world?

Your silence doesn't surprise any of us.

Sedond: You say bi-wiring makes your speakers sound better. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, maybe it's real, maybe it's all imaginary. I don't have any reason to believe that it does (the hypothesis you mentioned doesn't add any weight), but then I believe in keeping high standards to avoid wasting extra money on stuff that doesn't work.

Redkiwi: Your conclusions are faulty. The issue is whether there is real benefit to bi-wiring, not in whether the circuits are the same. There is proven benefit to minimizing the speaker cable resistance between the speaker, especially the woofer, and the amplifier. There is only anecdotal evidence -- no positive results from blind testing -- that bi-wiring improves the sound. Therefore, it's far more likely that joining the wires at the speaker would improve the sound by reducing the series cable resistance through parallel wire paths than separating them into a "bi-wire" arrangement, which doesn't take full advantage of the conductors available.

Jerie: Any component can and should stand on its own performance, regardless of brand or model. Speaker wire, however, has a single purpose: to deliver audio in the form of electrical signals to the speaker. The ideal wire will deliver exactly the same voltage to the speaker as the amplifier produces. No wire is perfect, but it's easy to get close enough for practicality by minimizing the electrical attributes, primarily series resistance but to a much lesser extent shunt capacitance and series inductance, that degrade the signal voltage. That's why speaker cables that work best tend to be as short and fat as possible, regardless of brand.

This is rich. First we have the scientists stating "there is no difference". When I point out that there is a circuit difference, I get "the issue is whether there is a real benefit". Then the same tired old rubbish about blind testing proving something. Unlike your mindless repetition of your belief in blind testing, I cannot be bothered to point out the counter-argument again. Don't you have anything more interesting to say about music than imply nothing exists until it has been proven by a blind test? Why on earth do you think this is a forum for posting the results of blind tests? And your suggestion 702 that the only issue with regard to speaker cables is series resistance is just absurd. All you really deserve as a response is RHUBARB.

702, ewe say:

"Sedond: You say bi-wiring makes your speakers sound better. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, maybe it's real, maybe it's all imaginary. I don't have any reason to believe that it does (the hypothesis you mentioned doesn't add any weight), but then I believe in keeping high standards to avoid wasting extra money on stuff that doesn't work...."

ab-x testing has been shown to have mixed results, science hasen't figured out all the wariables to measure that can explain every sonic difference, subjective listening can lead to imaginary perceived gains - what's an audiophile to do??? ;~)

i, too, believe in keeping high standards, cuz i *can't* afford to waste my money. that's why i'm open-minded about *all* methods to obtain better sound. but, bottom line is i *listen* to my stereo. of *course* ewe have no reason to believe whether or not my system sounded better bi-wired vs single-wire - yuve never heard it! but, ewe have no reason *not* to believe it either - unless, yer preconceived ideas are clouding yer thought-processes... so much so, that yude doubt someone that has actually *listened* to someting! ;~) it *did* sound better to me, & *i'm* the only one that i'm trying to impress. (well, i'd have a hard time justifying the expenditures to the wife, if *she* dint hear any differences!)

imagination? possible, but i don't necessarily fall for that *more-is-better* stuff. i found that only *one* electrocompaniet amp, in biwire configuration, actually sounded better than when i had two (same mfr, but different models) set-up in a horizontally bi-amped configuration. not what i expected, & definitely *not* what yude expect one to *imagine*, that's impressed by bigger/better/more-expensive/etc.

now that i'm running two electro amps vertically biamped, same exact model amps, (eight #'s apart according to their serial #'s), i tink the rig has never sounded better. but, ya know, it could be my imagination... mite have been my wife, family, & friends, that were imagining it, too. :>) hey, the mind is a powerful ting - if a couple gnu black boxes trick me-n-everyone else into enjoying better sound - cool, as long as it's *better*! of course, my brother-in-law dint know i'd hooked up gnu amps - after he walked into the room and heard, he *did* immediately look around to see what was different w/the rig, tho... ;~)

regards, doug s.