What is your opinion regarding electrostatics?

Point conceded, Frap - a first-class brace of 12's or 15's will indeed outslam a big panel.

I agree with you that very good results seem to come from running the panels full range and then using a low-Q sealed sub to add the ultradeep bass. This preserves all the superb pitch definition the panels have to offer. The REL's come to mind.

Sean, I have yet to hear an electrostatic or planar magnetic that can displace enough air to give you that solid chest-whump that a big dynamic can. However, a dynamic dipole (using say a dozen or so 12" woofers) can do it.

I don't blame you one bit, Sean, for wanting information on dipoles from source besides some guy selling them. And if I have come across as pushing my product, then I owe you all an apology. I believe in dipoles, and I've tried to articulate their advantages because they aren't common knowledge.

Just for the record, my background is that of an amateur speaker builder, not a salesman. I'm not blowing ad copy at you - I'm telling you things I learned over the course of 20 years of seriously studying and building loudspeakers. My intention was to one day become a manufacturer (which I almost did), but when I encountered a particular speaker I hung up my table saw and became a part-time, in-home dealer.

Sean, if you would like, I can find for you papers published in the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society that are the basis for many of the things I talk about. I didn't want to come across as some kind of name-dropper by tossing out references left and right. And frankly, unless people are really going to look them up, I'd rather not go to all the trouble to dig them out. But I understand your skepticism of claims made by a dealer, so if the references would help please let me know.

Again, I enjoy very much engaging in such dialogue. Thank you, Frap and Sean. Until next time!

Kindest regards,

Duke

Audiokinesis point, that the bass of dipoles is NOT omnidirectional as well as the reasons he gave for it, (cancellation of out of phase front and rear waves) is common knowledge here in Europe. The reason for that may possibly be, that electrostats, at least until about 10 years ago, when horns again became interesting, were the speakers of choice, if you wanted to have anything resembling a live jazz combo or chamber music. And since the chance to hear anything really loud would send the police to you though the kind graces of your neighbours, they did also fine with orchestral music.
Furthermore, Audiokinesis is right on the money maintaining, that when with dipoles the direct and reverberant fields sound pretty much the same, you've got them set up well. I should know. I've been playing
around with them for more than thirty years.
Whereas I will contest Sean's statement that most stators don't have much output below 100hz, I fully aggree with him, that it takes " surface area and displacement " to move a lot of air. Hence my idea of using "walls" of stators, in fact 6 on each side and stacked, to try to solve this problem. In fact it did not, until with the help of a pair of old Maggie bass panels and three different sets of subwoofers and much agonizing in trying to blend and voice it all, I finally had the problem licked to my satisfaction and the legs of my pants flipping, when sufficient bass energy was around.
As you've probably guessed, if you've bothered to read until here, I am not a technical man at all. I prefer to find out things for myself by trial and error and the only thing on earth I trust are my own ears, which (masochistically perhaps) I regularly immerse in live music.
Cheers to all,
Detlof

Well, Detlof, beat me to it on the question of stators' bass directionality!!! Fortunately, for I couldn't have put it better; my experience is identical (down to the police visit).

Another small point: I had good dispersion in the mid-highs but also good imaging with very narrow e-stators (~1 ft in width, 7ft high). Never managed to add a sub, so bass was clear but intensity was lacking.

BUT, coming back to Herve's question, I DID listen to Finals yrs ago, BUT memory hardly serves: a)I don't remember those being hybrid / b)they were driven by a SS (Krell?? Sphinx?? something like that) /c) the music was definitely classical (cd: Brahms 1st piano concerto) and...
I have retained an aural image of holographic, plush sound.

Very vague, I know. Sorry!

You guys just blew me away! This is the best thread I have come across since I've discovered this site. Thanks one and all for sharing your experiences.

Please remember one thing guys ( and "gurls" ): I am basing my statements on personal experience and what i've been able to learn from other "reliable sources" over the years. As such, i have no first hand dealings with any of the Sound Labs or others mentioned here that supposedly go quite low with solid output. I have heard "big" Maggies on more than a few occasions and i would say that they are a 50 Hz speaker at reasonable listening levels.

Part of the problem with panel's is that bass extension is compromised as the volume is increased. Trying to achieve both ( once again ) requires excursion and surface area.

I think that this is one of the very reasons that MANY people shy away from panels or are normally considered for "low to medium" volume installations. Their lack of sustained SPL capability and bottom octave performance become quite obvious after just a bit of listening. While it is possible to achieve those goals with the better designs ( according to what you folks are saying ), it obviously costs quite a bit more than what many folks feel comfortable paying.

Don't get me wrong as i DO like panels. Like i said earlier, my "big" system will consist of stat's on top ( and maybe mids too ) when i finally get it done.

In response to Detlof, you're just a "one of a kind". Believe me, i mean that in the most sincere and fun way. How many other people do you know that would go to the lengths that you have in terms of being in "planar & plasma heaven" ??? Definetly an "audio nut" and maybe even just a "nut" : ) I would REALLY like to hear and see "Frankenstein".

As to Duke's comments, i don't think that you have ANYTHING to worry about in terms of being a "product pusher" or a "name dropper". You've always made your situation VERY clear while offering a solid take on the situation and doing it in nothing less than gentlemanly fashion. If you don't know Albert, you two should hook up and "tip a few". Birds of a feather : )

My comments about finding "unbiased" sources of info were not aimed at you or any specific manufacturers, i simply meant what i said in general terms.

Like Tubegroover said, this thread has been both enlightening AND great fun. Let's try and make 'em all like that : ) Sean
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